1
$\begingroup$

I'm having trouble reconciling the approaches to calculating the expected value in two different but similar dice game scenarios. Here's the first scenario involving a standard 6-sided die:

  • Problem Statement: "A player rolls a standard fair 6-sided die. If the player rolls a 6, the game ends and the player receives no payout. Otherwise, the player may quit and receive $k$, where $k$ is the upface of the previous roll. Otherwise, the player may roll again under the same rules. Assuming optimal play from the player, what is their expected payout?"

  • Given Solution: "Intuitively, given that the player does not roll a 6, the conditional expectation of their die roll is 3. The sum of the rest of the faces of the die is 15, which are distributed over 5 faces. Therefore, the player should keep any value at least 3 and re-roll any value below 3. Let $e_3$ be the expected payout of this strategy. We have that $e_3 = \frac{1}{3} \cdot e_3 + \frac{1}{2} \cdot 4$. Solving for this, we get that $e_3 = 3$, which is our optimal strategy."

In a similar problem involving a 100-sided die discussed here, the optimal threshold isn't directly taken as the expected value of the die's outcomes. Instead, a calculus approach determines the point at which the expected value of rolling exceeds the immediate payoff. The threshold calculated significantly differs from the simple average of die faces.

Question: Shouldn't the approach to finding the optimal stop condition be consistent across similar types of games? Specifically, if using the average value as a threshold is optimal for a 6-sided die, why wouldn't it be the same for a 100-sided die? Could the discrepancy arise from the larger range of values and probabilities, or is there a flaw in how the 6-sided die game's solution is presented?

I'm looking to understand whether I'm missing something fundamental between these two approaches or if the solutions should indeed be considered differently. Any insights or further explanations would be greatly appreciated.

$\endgroup$
1
  • $\begingroup$ In short, for a general strategy, the expectation of the next die roll is not the same as the expected payout of the overall strategy. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 5, 2024 at 18:49

2 Answers 2

1
$\begingroup$

I agree that the solution you mention for your problem is not satisfactory, and in fact for a general $N$-sided die it leads to the wrong answer, as I will now argue.

Consider an $N$ sided die for some $N \geq 1$. For every $1 \leq n \leq N$, we denote by $e_n$ the expected payoff if we adopt the strategy of taking profits whenever we roll a number $\geq n$. Then similar to your calculation, we have $$e_n = \frac{n-1}{N} \cdot e_n + \frac{N-n}{N}\cdot \frac{N+n-1}{2}.$$

Solving this gives $$e_n = \frac{(N-n)(N+n-1)}{2(N-n+1)}.$$ We want to maximize this expression in $n$. You can do this by setting the derivative to zero and solving for $n$. This gives $n= N+1 \pm \sqrt{2N}$, and since we require $1 \leq n \leq N$ we obtain $n= N+1 - \sqrt{2N}$. This of course doesn't need to be an integer - in this case you should calculate the payoff for the integers you obtain by rounding up and down, and see which one is better. In your case we have $N=6$ and we obtain $n= 7 - \sqrt{12} \approx 3.54$ and we can calulate $e_3 = e_4 = 3$. For $N=100$ we obtain $n=101 - \sqrt{200} \approx 86.86$ and $e_{87} > e_{86}$.

$\endgroup$
0
$\begingroup$

The idea that getting the expected value of the remaining faces is the optimal play is wrong and unfounded. One way to see this is that you could make similar games, where again a 6 cannot score, but the game ends not after the first 6, but after the second, third, ... 1000th. The argument would be the same, as still only 1-5 can score, but obviously the optimal plays are way different.

The longer the game lasts on average, the higher is the probability that the player can reach a much better score with only a small chance of the game ending not in their favour. That's why the calculus method gives a much higher score for the 100-sided die, which will last significantly longer than with the 6-sided die, where the given strategy may be optimal, but the justification isn't correct.

$\endgroup$

You must log in to answer this question.

Start asking to get answers

Find the answer to your question by asking.

Ask question

Explore related questions

See similar questions with these tags.