Timeline for Closing changes: [on hold], unclear, too broad, opinion-based, off-topic reasons, bye-bye to Too Localized
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
48 events
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| Sep 23, 2020 at 13:28 | comment | added | jrh | I can't downvote this but I'd like to; if it's a typo problem edit the question so it's about the typo or find a dupe that's related to the typo, we shouldn't ever be trying to predict the future audience of something, it's bad enough the roomba does that automatically. Are you all marketing professionals? Do you really know better than the OP what is or isn't "hot enough" to get views? It's not our responsibility to optimize SE's traffic, either. I've seen old closed "TL" questions that got tens of thousands of views. | |
| Jan 15, 2014 at 19:21 | comment | added | puretppc | So I voted a question closed but it got closed in the end. I was wondering why didn't my name show up? Instead it got replaced by higher rep people. | |
| Jun 15, 2013 at 14:19 | comment | added | AJ Henderson | @PeeHaa埽 - yes, there is an option to reopen in place, but I thought it might have decay. I could be wrong on that. It also isn't obvious to a new user that Reopen is a button they should click if they think it would be helpful and Reopening because it is useful specifically could remove the option. I suppose it could simply rely on the upvote mechanism. Say, after a question has 5 upvotes it can't be closed as Too Localized. | |
| Jun 15, 2013 at 12:41 | comment | added | PeeHaa | @AJHenderson I really don't think flagging all those questions or them needing more close votes is going to solve anything. Also note that there is already the option to reopen questions in place. | |
| Jun 14, 2013 at 17:21 | comment | added | AJ Henderson | Hmm, one other thought on Too Localized. What if there was an option on questions that are closed as "Too Localized" to say "Useful to Me" and if a threshold is reached, the Too Localized would be overridden and the question reopened. | |
| Jun 14, 2013 at 17:20 | comment | added | AJ Henderson | I also agree there needs to be some way to have the idea of "Too Localized." If it is being abused, perhaps the wording needs to be changed or it needs to be switched to a mod only option with flagging or perhaps the bar for closure could be raised based on the size of the site. However, without it, we are going to end up with lots of questions with no answer because it simply isn't worth the time to respond to. They will sit there forever polluting an otherwise useful site. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 23:33 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @SamIam ... or get closed as duplicates. You don't get many upvotes after being dup-closed. However, I've seen some downvotes on such as well. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 23:16 | comment | added | user50049 | @JeffAtwood We assume in good faith that one at least believes that they have some sort of comprehension over the scope of the problem that they're trying to solve. That doesn't really need to be reiterated every time something is put on hold, only when it's evident that such understanding is grossly lacking. It's frequently evident when it comes to that particular type of question, and the most poignant advice we can give. That said I'm not yet entirely happy with the wording either. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 22:46 | comment | added | Jeff Atwood StaffMod | @shog9 why would that be limited to 'questions regarding assignments'. Why wouldn't all questions need to demonstrate a minimum understanding of what is being asked? | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 21:44 | comment | added | Sam I am says Reinstate Monica | I've found that Low effort questions that don't actually have other problems are rarely down-voted. The "low effort"-ness that people always refer to is a vague notion that the OP is asking for too much. Questions such as How do I declare default parameters in c# or What is the syntax for a literal array in java typically get upvotes if anything. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 21:17 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @Shog9 I love that! :-) I love that the close reason perfectly matches the current practice of "we're willing to help if you show some effort". I'm wondering if such questions should be purged ex-post (or at least unindexed from Google), but that's another story. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 21:10 | comment | added | Shog9 StaffMod | My current working draft has "Questions regarding assignments must demonstrate a minimal understanding of the problem being solved. Tell us what you've tried and why it didn't work. See also: Stack Overflow question checklist", @Jan. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 21:08 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @Servy what is the proposed wording? "Question does not deserve an answer" is the most accurate, but it sounds a bit too harsh. Also, the description I have in mind for this close reason ("questions are supposed to be applicable to the general public. Don't ask us to do your homework") fits well to the original Too Localised close reason. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 21:06 | comment | added | Anthony Pegram | We need a close reason "user should think about changing professions." | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 21:04 | comment | added | Servy | @JanDvorak That's fine. The point is that you should be using an appropriate close reason when closing such a question. You shouldn't be closing it as "too localized" if it's not actually too localized; you should be using a close reason that actually applies to the question you're closing. Shog9 seems to think that a sub-reason of offtopic would be appropriate here. Depending on the specific wording, I could see that working. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:55 | comment | added | John Dvorak | If these homework copy-pastes get answered AND the answers won't get downvoted, you can pretty much expect stack overflow to be flooded with homework copy-pastes. These are not "low-hanging fruits". These are not "fruits fallen to the ground". These are "fruits fallen to the ground and thoroughly rotten, and the answerers are the worms". The worms will thrive. The place will stink. The worms might even be attracted to the smell (rep-whores seeking heavily-downvoted unclosed questions without answers). I believe these should be closed, especially since you cannot safely downvote the answers. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:51 | comment | added | Shog9 StaffMod | @Jeff: yup. In practice many sites will want their own rules to handle just this sort of scenario. TeX, for instance, will almost certainly want a "MWE required" rule (which they've been using TL+comments to enforce up to now), while I'm recommending that Stack Overflow focus on short, reproducible problem descriptions as a requirement. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:48 | comment | added | Servy | @JanDvorak That's a real too localized question. I am indeed wondering about that myself. Perhaps there'll be a sub-reason in offtopic for that? | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:47 | comment | added | Servy | @JeffAtwood Well, if such a close reason is abused more often then it's used correctly then one could argue that the problems with leaving such questions open don't outweigh the problems with the improper closings. (Not sure I buy that though, it's just a thought.) | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:46 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @Servy what should be done about those typo questions? They shouldn't be kept around to dilute the search results. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:45 | comment | added | Servy | @JanDvorak People are allowed to vote pretty much however they want. I know I personally wouldn't disagree with such voting. That said, I find that in the vast majority of cases when anyone actually does downvote such an answer it just gets upvotes from people right away "because it's still correct" and so I don't downvote such answers personally. If it wouldn't make it more likely to generate pity upvotes I'd consider it though. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:44 | comment | added | Jeff Atwood StaffMod | @shog9 how can you have "too broad" without a corresponding "too narrow"? Under these rules couldn't you ask a programming question that can't possibly help anyone but you, like Joel's mythical "there's a car parked outside my house" except "there's a recursive function parked outside my house"? | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:43 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @Servy I assume it is then appropriate to downvote any "here iz ur code" answers to such questions (that managed to appear before it (hopefully) got closed as a heavy duplicate)? | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:40 | comment | added | Servy | @JanDvorak "How do I create a linked list?" is a question often given as a homework problem. It's a question that demonstrates no effort, or research. It could very well be an exact copy-paste of the text of a homework assignment. That is the exact criteria Griwes listed. Your example, actually, is something that's a reasonably common task to have as well. Basic form construction/communication is a common problem. It is also not "too localized". Your example however would indeed be a low quality question to which it would be appropriate to downvote. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:35 | comment | added | Shog9 StaffMod | It's a sad illustration of how badly misunderstood the previous close reasons were that you would use "Too Localized" for these, when "Not a Real Question" explicitly called them out in its description ("incomplete"). When experienced users of the site don't even know what the close reasons are meant to be used for, there's a serious communications problem - we're hoping to fix that. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 20:33 | comment | added | John Dvorak | @Servy not "how to create a linked list". That's merely "not enough research - downvote". What is meant is "1. create two form inputs; 2. name the first one "x" 3. name the second one "y". 4. create a button named "z". 5. if that button is pressed, alert the values of "x" and "y".". That's what "copy-pasted homework" means. These are clearly too localised. Do you really think they should stay open? | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:57 | comment | added | Servy | @Griwes How is it broken? Don't go around saying, "you're wrong, but you're so wrong that I'm not even going to explain why you're wrong". If it's really that wrong it should be easy to explain. Take an example question of, "How do I create a Linked List in Java?" Very common homework problem; lots of classes will ask that at some point. Clearly the answer to that question is applicable to a lot of people, even those not doing homework (knowing how it's implemented is useful for anyone). You're saying it's TL. That means your definition of TL has nothing to do with the close reason. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:47 | comment | added | Griwes | @Servy, since your comments are becoming more and more utterly broken (or it's just your point of view that is utterly broken?), I think I'll stop answering you. Hope your point of view will become less utterly broken (or, better yet, less broken) one day. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:45 | comment | added | Servy | @MartinSmith I don't see Jeff stating that such a question is too localized. People have been talking about "gimmie teh codez" questions for a long time. Pretty much everyone agrees they're bad and don't belong here. That doesn't make them too localized. You should downvote such questions. While a lot of them will meet some close criteria, many don't. I would have been much more shocked to ever see him say that gimmie the codez were appropriate. I'm not saying they are. I'm saying they're not [always] "too localized". | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:43 | comment | added | Martin Smith | @Servy - That is your view. It doesn't seem to be the view of Jeff here I do not accept questions that are brief meta-descriptions of what the author wants to accomplish without demonstrating any actual attempt to solve their own problem or sharing the research they did on the topic. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:43 | comment | added | Servy | @Griwes No, that's not the case. You were one of the people abusing the TL close reason, and that's why it has been removed. Such questions are ocasionally too localized, but in a large percentage of cases they were asking how to solve common problems faced by a lot of people. Since they're so often applicable to a wide audience, they aren't "too localized". | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:41 | comment | added | Griwes | @Servy, no, I am not misusing the term. And those questions are definitely closeable, and that's what too localized was for. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:40 | comment | added | Servy | @Griwes Then you're mis-using the term. A homework question is a question about a homework assignment. You're referring to a "Gimme teh codez" question. They don't even need to be related to homework at all. A question of the form of "<My requirement> Gimmie teh codez" is low quality, occasionally incomplete (i.e. NARQ), but usually not closable. Usually you should just downvote and move on. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:38 | comment | added | Griwes | @Servy, "related to homework question" != "homework question". I am 100% fine with questions related to homework. But questions that are basically "solve this assignment for me" are pain in the arse and are what I call "homework question". | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:38 | comment | added | bwoebi | @benisuǝqbackwards while (haveDumbQuestion()) { if (banned) { change_ip(); deleteCookies(); deleteLocalStorage(); } askQuestion(); } this is how people ask their questions ;-) | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:37 | comment | added | Servy | @Rapptz Such a question still isn't generally too localized. It's a very low quality question and should be downvoted, but it's still not too localized. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:36 | comment | added | Servy | @Griwes I've seen quite a few. Perhaps you just haven't been around long enough. Also keep in mind that I'm sure some of the questions you've answered were related to homework problems and you just didn't know about it. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:35 | comment | added | ben is uǝq backwards | You don't need to close them @bwoebi, 5 -5 voted questions in a row are probably enough to permanently ban someone. Once again though I am not against closing questions. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:34 | comment | added | Rapptz | @Servy I agree -- not all homework questions are too localised. I meant more so homework questions that are 100% copy paste or "do the assignment for me" | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:34 | comment | added | Griwes | @Servy, I am yet to see a not dumb, actually useful programming homework (at least on the level people come to SO ask for ready to copy and paste solutions). | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:34 | comment | added | ben is uǝq backwards | Judging by standard SO questions it'll probably be used by another 20 people @Griwes. That's besides the point. I agree, it should be downvoted and closed but you've gone for the worst possible example; something being low effort (not no effort) on it's own is not a reason to close and no effort is generally NARQ anyway. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:33 | comment | added | Servy | @Griwes Actually, they often aren't. Teachers often intentionally choose tasks that real people really need to do. Writing a sorting algorithm, creating a particular data structure from scratch, etc. are all really common homework problems, but are also problems applicable to lots and lots of people (including lots of people not just doing homework). It's actually somewhat uncommon for homework questions to be too localized. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:32 | comment | added | bwoebi | @benisuǝqbackwards both. This type of questions won't decrease if you don't close them. Show the OPs that their questions aren't good enough for SO. When they understand this, their questions quality increases. At least newcomers to SO don't really care about downvotes. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:29 | comment | added | Griwes | "Gimme this answer for this specific homework my specific teacher gave me for my specific course" is NOT too localized, too, @benisuǝqbackwards? | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:28 | comment | added | ben is uǝq backwards | That's not what I said @Griwes, a typo question should be closed. Just because someone puts no effort into a question does not mean that it is too localized though. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:27 | comment | added | Griwes | So too localized questions should be left open, @benisuǝqbackwards? It makes really, really no sense. | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:22 | comment | added | ben is uǝq backwards | Low Effort isn't a reason to close, it's a reason to downvote (and sometimes to attempt to find an appropriate close reason as well). | |
| Jun 12, 2013 at 19:20 | history | answered | Rapptz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |