Timeline for What could be a good team building activity to improve estimation skills?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
14 events
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| Aug 30, 2011 at 15:29 | comment | added | Rob | @Thomas Owens, I definitely agree that a good engineer should always be improving both. I think that requirements discovery might be a better activity for my presentation, though, I will use an activity on requirements as a lead-in to a small discussion on estimation. Thanks, everyone - you guys have all been hugely helpful! | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 15:27 | comment | added | Thomas Owens♦ | @maple_shaft This question is explicitly about improving estimation skills, though. If you need to improve estimation skills, your tasks should assume perfect requirements so that you can focus on the actual task of improving estimation. Introducing too many variables just makes it more difficult to learn and teach a concept. | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 15:19 | comment | added | maple_shaft♦ | @Thomas, I actually agree with you, this exercise doesn't actually teach how to estimate, they are disjointed however one begets the other. Poorly thought out requirements will render even the BEST estimates useless. In the real world, requirements analysis is so critically important for the developer to do because the developer is the final stop. He is the final protection against bad requirements, much like how a good nurse will question a doctor who makes a dangerous mistake. If the doctor orders the wrong dose and the nurse kills the patient, THEY BOTH GET BLAMED. | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 15:19 | comment | added | Thomas Owens♦ | @unforgiven3 A good engineer should always be working on improving both. I've been in a position where I was not tasked with requirements engineering, but I was handed a spec that had what I saw were problems in it. Having the skill to see those and ask the right questions is essential for anyone developing software, and it does need to be worked on. However, when I am estimating, I always based my estimates on the spec, even if there are questions. I just leave a larger window for error (giving 75% chances instead of 85%, or giving a slightly larger window). | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 15:15 | comment | added | Rob | @Thomas Owens, I agree it's impossible to estimate what you don't know - which is precisely my point - you need to discover requirements for a feature and validate assumptions about it as a prerequisite for creating a decent estimate. I do agree, though, after some consideration, that it is disjoint from improving one's ability to estimate - perhaps focusing the activity on discovering requirements would be more immediately useful than an estimation activity. Good points - they definitely have me thinking that maybe I am focusing on the wrong skill to improve. | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 15:04 | comment | added | Thomas Owens♦ | @unforgiven3 That has nothing to do with estimation, though. The job of requirements engineering might fall to a developer, but you can only base your estimates off of known requirements. Improving your ability to analyze, verify, validate, and discover requirements is disjoint from improving your ability to estimate how long it will take to perform a task. Requirements change, estimates therefore change, but it's impossible to estimate what you don't know and you shouldn't be trying to. | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 15:02 | comment | added | Rob | @Thomas Owens, I think maple_shaft point is to impress on the developers the importance of discovering those types of requirements. As a consultant, I've personally seen many examples of ridiculously obvious things that a user should have asked for, but didn't, because they did not realize it was what they needed. Myself and my developers are all consultants, and in our current situation, we do not have the luxury of good requirements engineers, which is why I am trying to help prod them into asking those types of discovery questions of their clients to help improve their estimations. | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 14:58 | comment | added | Thomas Owens♦ | An implied requirement? Absolutely not. If the user wanted a bridge, they would ask for a bridge. If they didn't say it from the beginning, a good requirements engineer would ask about it. But it would absolutely not be shipped to the customer if it wasn't in the spec. | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 14:26 | comment | added | maple_shaft♦ | @unforgiven3, Sure! If you google image search 'Minecraft Pyramid' you can actually FIND a screenshot of a pyramid surrounded by water with a bridge. I wouldn't show that screenshot however until after that presentation. There is a free version of Minecraft that you can play online too if you want to become more familiar with it. | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 14:23 | comment | added | GHP | I've never played Minecraft but I think the analogy works perfectly well. You should also add that the client wants an extra wall to be X height, but he hasn't decided on X yet and he'll let you know "ASAP". | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 14:11 | comment | added | Rob | @maple_shaft, I am embarrassed to say I have never played :) but I am familiar with it. I see what you're saying, especially about the need for a bridge being implied. I think I'll whip up a little PowerPoint exercise explaining the activity and post it back here. Would you be willing to give me some feedback on it? | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 14:06 | comment | added | maple_shaft♦ | @unforgiven3, Any developer that is not at least somewhat familiar with Minecraft must turn his geek card and be escorted off the premises immediately :) J/K. Kidding aside, all they would need to know is that it is an insanely addictive game where you control a guy who can lay blocks and jump. The point of the exercise is not to be accurate about individual tasks for the user story but more for anticipating that the customer probably doesn't REALLY just want a building surrounded by a moat with no bridge. The need for the bridge should be implied. | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 13:49 | comment | added | Rob | I like this, but if you're not familiar with Minecraft, I'm not sure how you could come up with an estimate that makes sense. How would you quantify the time it takes to build a brown step pyramid? | |
| Aug 30, 2011 at 13:21 | history | answered | maple_shaft♦ | CC BY-SA 3.0 |