Tavern on the Meta

00:08

@Slate: the wheels of change turn slowly, but they do turn. or so I hope. well, we all have to hope that they turn fast enough, and that it's not too late. or not. I'm not your mom.

@Slate I mean I have been at some things for years - maybe closer to a decade. And sometimes those wheels turn in the wrong direction, or are wobbly and untrue

Andreas condemns Israel

Centering the situation around "hope" isn't exactly to your benefit, not when the "hope" is for that the party you represent to turn around.

It's like a stormtrooper telling the rebels to be hopeful that Emperor Palpatine will one day become kind.

Slate

It's not really "centered on" hope, I sort of just hope (geh) it's a byproduct of having honest conversations about where we're going and why

Regardless, my question was what you'd recommend I do, not what you'd recommend I don't do

Andreas condemns Israel

Well, if you'd like to have an honest conversation with the community about where you/they/we are going, you could for instance tell people about the AnswerBot AIGC answers while it was being worked out and implemented.

Slate

Like, actions. Concrete stuff. If you tell me to quit, I won't take it the wrong way.

Andreas condemns Israel

Considering the AnswerBot thing is already well on its way, or perhaps another broken feature not to get updated, you could share some news about other things discussed at the office. :)

Slate

00:23

Anything that interests you, or just generally?

Andreas condemns Israel

Surely you'd know that best. ;)

After all, I don't know what's been discussed in there.

Slate

Well, let's start with what I'm working on. We've hired a couple new folks on the CM dept. We've always got a lot going on, and it takes a while to bring CMs up to speed, but I'm honestly impressed at how quickly they're picking up on things.

I've been spending a lot of time on that third question, and the question series more generally, and then after that thinking about where it's all going and how we get there.

Some of my time has been going to T&S issues, which I naturally can't really talk about, but which are nevertheless kinda time consuming in their own right.

Another part of it - I've been spending a fair amount of time discussing experimentation plans and how we approach measurement/analysis. Working with folks internally on building better intuitions for what to measure, how to measure, and how to set up experiments that produce meaningful and reliable results. It's not really directly a CM responsibility, but it's something we can get better at, and I can contribute to it, so I am.

Andreas condemns Israel

Well, I do find transparency a necessary component for success, but yes, T&S issues do demand some privacy for all involved parties. :)

Slate

More broadly, I think the org is managing a lot of change at the moment. We just lost and got a new CPO, I'm sure you've heard. That was a bit of a shock to come back to personally (I took a month of vacation; left when Ryan was here, came back, and he was gone). But it's a pretty significant change and I think it has knock-on effects for what work looks like here.

Andreas condemns Israel

@Slate @Slate Any new experiments or long-term goals behind them, coming up?

Slate

00:33

I just posted about one here, actually.

That's the one I'm directly involved in, right now. Then there's Answer Assistant, which I'm sure you've heard about, and commenting, which I'm also sure you've heard about.

bobble

@Spevacus bumped two old-style duplicates

Slate

This "one" I'm involved with is really a lot of experiments in a nutshell. I suspect we won't be done with redirection experiments for a while. There are a lot of things to try. But who knows, don't take it as a promise.

I've seen a few other ideas tossed around, but nothing I'm dead certain is coming out or when. It actually hasn't been something I've had the time to pay attention to recently; most of my time has been spent out here, talking with people.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, to be honest.

Andreas condemns Israel

@Slate @Slate Well, I am positively surprised. It just remains to see how it shifts the score in the bigger picture.

Slate

Thanks. I think it's a good idea, honestly. M-- has a point about the modal's size, but from what I understand, there's time enough to play around. The folks behind this one are also the ones behind changing the Stack Overflow homepage.

Spevacus

Another thought as it comes to redirection or the feeling of being unable to do anything as a new user: How many new users are rejected from being able to edit something because the queue is full on SO?

Niche problem, but something I just thought of.

Slate

00:41

(I'm truthfully not sure what the net impact will be in the long run, either. But even an incremental effect is a not bad outcome, ofc depending a bit on the impl details. And while participation is easier to quantify, the way it changes user sentiment in the long run is not so easy.)

Oh yeah

Journeyman Geek

@Slate: More broadly, I think the org is managing a lot of change at the moment. We just lost and got a new CPO, I'm sure you've heard. That was a bit of a shock to come back to personally (I took a month of

@Slate that was a bit of a shock to us too - especially with him taking point (and responsibility) on the AI stuff when the mods were briefed

Slate

yeah, that makes sense

Journeyman Geek

01:07

@Slate: It's not really "centered on" hope, I sort of just hope (geh) it's a byproduct of having honest conversations about where we're going and why

@Slate it’s also a useful placeholder for well - things going right 😅

controlgroup

02:19

You know I'm sure I'm not even qualified to understand the answer, but any idea why SU is getting hit with so much more spam than the other Stacks?

I haven't heard about this kind of stuff happening on SO or other sites

I know of some repeated reposters on Philosophy/Physics/Astronomy but not anything of this scale on SU

Andreas condemns Israel

Because the @ElementsInSpace aligned.

controlgroup

yeah that checks out

Also recommend ban gaming.stackexchange.com/users/380015/gihlmarion.

replying in kind to the spam posts

nvm, didn't notice that it's the same user

Andreas condemns Israel

02:46

Can I suggest a ban for user -2, too?

controlgroup

Lol, I'd agree with that...

more spam

i'd also like to thank all the mods and users current dealing with the spam, by the way

a lot of that isn't done automatically and it's a lot of work, so thank all of y'all who are doing it

Jeremy

04:21

@Andreas condemns Israel @AndreascondemnsIsrael I don’t see any of their posts published :p

Journeyman Geek

06:05

@controlgroup: You know I'm sure I'm not even qualified to understand the answer, but any idea why SU is getting hit with so much more spam than the other Stacks?

@controlgroup no clue, and we are not even a soft target

VLAZ

06:44

@controlgroup: You know I'm sure I'm not even qualified to understand the answer, but any idea why SU is getting hit with so much more spam than the other Stacks?

@controlgroup I don't know why SU was targetted. But previously the spam wave was focused on other sites. SU is the latest target. And I think most prolonged.

user152859

06:59

@Frog: :10062057 oof i meant to get to this sooner! meeting-y day. it looks like smokedetector/metasmoke have been back in business for a while, which is great to see. that said, i have been watching the s

@Frog that's good to know, and wish we could know such things sooner, if possible? Would give much needed hope. Of course preventing the spam from reaching in the first place is ideal, but the waves just keep crashing on SE shores. Anyway, thanks for the good and not-so-late reply! :)

user152859

@Spevacus: @ShadowWizard *definitely* is ;)

@Spevacus living in Den, yeah! :-D

user152859

@Slate: I'm sure I'm forgetting something, to be honest.

@Slate hopefully not your keys! ;)

user152859

@VLAZ @VLAZ perhaps because it resists so good. wild guess, the spam campaign has a goal to reach X visible spam posts for Y minutes (i.e. spam will last for a while), and until it's reached, it will just keep going.

user152859

;)

user152859

So if that very wild guess is correct, letting it flow for a while would make it go away to the next target afterwards. :D

VLAZ

07:08

Well, targetting smaller sites did leave spam up for longer. SU mods are very active in squashing this. There are a lot more users and a lot more flags around. When the targets was, for example, Open Data - they get a post every few days or so. Mods aren't as active, nor are users. I'd run out of flags very fast on that site. I only have the 10 from the association bonus anyway.

user152859

This leads me to the random question of the decade: @JeffAtwood do you plan to become active again in Stack Overflow, and if you do, would you consider running for moderator there? That would sure be interesting and inspiring for some (many) old time users. :-D

user152859

(Plus, you can do a really good job!)

Elements In Space

@VLAZ

21 hours ago, by Elements In Space

You’ll get 11 if you are good.

Petəíŕd the Wizard

looks around

user152859

looks beyond

user152859

07:10

@VLAZ @VLAZ yeah, but we can't know the reasoning behind those spam waves. :/

Petəíŕd the Wizard

spots @Sha

VLAZ

@Elements In Space @ElementsInSpace I have ~80 flags per day on SU. 10 of those are from association bonus and 0 from rep. I hope I've been good.

Elements In Space

If those ~80 flags are all helpful, then you’ll get another ~8 on the same day.

user152859

New kind of troll please keep an eye on activity and flag new posts.

Petəíŕd the Wizard

eww

A-Tech

09:54

Some people on Meta will downvote anything: Bug report? Downvote. Asking for staff support in a spam wave? Downvote. Asking the company to stop tracking users? Believe it or not, downvote.

Elements In Space

Yeah.

Elements In Space

10:12

@A-Tech

Parks and Rec - funny jail scene

►

Andreas condemns Israel

@A-Tech @A-Tech Chat message? Downvote.

VLAZ

10:31

@A-Tech @A-Tech All are equal for the downvotes.

A-Tech

@VLAZ @VLAZ especially when written like this meta.stackexchange.com/a/406681/1422281 :)

VLAZ

@A-Tech @A-Tech :/ you bring up swag there and I feel it's a sore point for me. Not that I'd ever get enough rep to receive swag. But I certainly support the idea. But SE managed to just fail doing it. There are companies out there that provide this service for you. Heck, even Charcoal has swag. Not something you earn but you can buy branded Charcoal things. I have two mugs. It's easy to do swag.

Elements In Space

Mugs?

Where are these mugs?

balpha

10:46

20

Q: Stack Overflow Mug

A friend got me a stack overflow mug and its amazing - but one thing has always troubled me. Is the code written in a real world language? The code seems like it could be improved slightly. if (owner.isCoding() && mug.isEmpty()){ mug.fill('coffee'); } It appears to me that isCoding and ...

(that particular one probably doesn't get made anymore, with the old logo and all, but it was the first one!)

Andreas condemns Israel

@Elements In Space @ElementsInSpace Right here! Hand over all your money!

Elements In Space

@Andreas condemns Israel @AndreascondemnsIsrael Okay, if you give me all of your mugs.

(The postage and handling costs alone…)

Andreas condemns Israel

@Elements In Space @ElementsInSpace No, I’m mugging you.

But I must say, it’s a pleasant surprise that you assume I have mugs.

Well, I have two, last used… last Summer.

Elements In Space

Do you use a cup or a shoe or something else instead?

Or do you live in a place so cold that all beverages can be consumed with a knife and fork?

A-Tech

11:03

@VLAZ: :10063372 :/ you bring up swag there and I feel it's a sore point for me. Not that I'd ever get enough rep to receive swag. But I certainly support the idea. But SE managed to just fail doing it. Ther

@VLAZ I mean SE can always try again - perhaps we just need to rephrase such requests it into business talk à la SE-can-make-money-of-it?

VLAZ

@Elements In Space: Where are these mugs?

in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:08, by ArtOfCode

Oh, and since people have been prodding me... Charcoal has a swag store now.

If you mean mine:

(the right most is not charcoal. Just my favourite mug)

@A-Tech @A-Tech Or tie it to gen AI.

A-Tech

@VLAZ @VLAZ I would be funny if the USB stick is just full of downloaded spam posts.

@VLAZ @VLAZ hmm how about: fun events mean more posts -> more training data for AI?

Andreas condemns Israel

11:22

@Elements In Space @ElementsInSpace Glasses.

Not the ones that go in front of your eyes.

Argh, did Russia cut another data cable on the bottom of the ocean today?

Tinkeringbell

No, they hit Chernobyl, so the radiation is interfering with the 5G signal ;)

user152859

@balpha: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/138755/stack-overflow-mug

@balpha yeah, I still have the mug, and it's full with money. :-D

balpha

@user152859 @ShadowWizard That's a bug then. It should've been filled with coffee.

user152859

@balpha @balpha whoops.

user152859

You're welcome to come over and help me fix it. Coffee would be on me.

user152859

11:35

:-P

balpha

Can I keep the money though?

user152859

@Tinkeringbell @Tinkeringbell or mutant mice ate the cable.

user152859

@balpha @balpha sure, but it's only shekels. Lots of them though. Let me find the recent picture...

PM 2Ring

@balpha Has something changed in Chat recently that could affect the pisting of long URLs?

@balpha Has something changed in Chat recently that could affect the posting of long URLs?

in Sandbox on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 2 hours ago, by PM 2Ring

I get errors posting long URLS that used to work ok.

user152859

@PM 2Ring

status-dupe

balpha

11:38

I fixed some issue with message length enforcement, so it's possible, yeah

user152859

Chat messages are now limited to 10k characters, even multiline. @PM2Ring so if the URL is more than that, that's the issue.

user152859

@balpha I found old pic of my mug when it still had coffee!

user152859

PM 2Ring

SageMathCell b64 encodes compressed Sage scripts into a URL. I used to be able to post them by appending a \n char to the URL. But now Chat rejects the URL if it's long.

VLAZ

@user152859 @ShadowWizard so, either the owner is coding, or the owner is not coding but the mug is also not empty.

user152859

11:40

@PM 2Ring @PM2Ring yeah, so likely more than 10k indeed. Used to be.... ah... LOTS more. (like 2M at least)

user152859

@VLAZ @VLAZ complex logic indeed. ;)

PM 2Ring

@user152859 @ShadowWizard No, these are way smaller than 10k. And it works if you prepend a newline, but you get the (see full text) message, which you have to click to get a valid URL.

There are a few examples in the Sandbox.

https://sagecell.sagemath.org/?z=eJxdks2O2jAUhfd%2DilNY4DCeTGI6FRuvKrUrJDRiN6LITQyxJrGNfQNtn75yikZ0Vj7Xvn%5Ffkef4qsk4HX%2Dj8bY37XSU2G4gX6w7QVbyc1mtSynZRUe%2DSALULQRaP2jr1CIa3S8KMKahUJUrFqGgscxaPrOYwziFkrkRCrUEYwSFhCdods3qHInXeAD9kLnV%5FH6paNgZChfTkI%5F8VSfrOk6FQCVw3RdYQk8lO%2D1OxhEaPwTvjKPEmiSQXJ6JJ1wFKB9sjhdPmqx3GDRF%2D4ttaqib5q8MeM2FlcBjcnuR40qgFqj%2DBclNj03aC7a%5FrettD0ufWOgsFOQyWCzhRiyRWIDCGQ%5FY1Fi%2DY%2DQGPvHQ2UIgWTepiSZOHb8bAnUGp6hbaxyxCxRC2drjkaeidD4Ourd%5FTMsLll29lE30KR1C9O3YEA8fcrLN44ecS8E28o58nAwtd9MCG%5F1moEHjT8Ooy8O7zLT6wkIGChlI3gFlGupuMNTdWDLMNqfrqAdD0TaH0HtatTwEAZ4EHmuBuhCYc%…

That's only 737 bytes or so.

PM 2Ring

12:19

@Tinkeringbell: No, they hit Chernobyl, so the radiation is interfering with the 5G signal ;)

@Tinkeringbell Hitting Chernobyl's shield is pretty dumb. You wouldn't want to give the Ukrainians ideas... like using the waste in Chernobyl to build dirty bombs...

Tinkeringbell

12:32

@PM 2Ring @PM2Ring Yeah, let's not go there... I doubt it ends well, even though I live quite far away ;-)

I've heard stories from my parents... something about cows, spinach, and vegetable gardens.

PM 2Ring

@Tinkeringbell @Tinkeringbell Yeah, ok.

Petəíŕd the Wizard

@user152859: Chat messages are now limited to 10k characters, even multiline. @PM2Ring so if the URL is more than that, that's the issue.

@ShadowWizard that's also what I thought, but no

PM 2Ring

@Tinkeringbell @Tinkeringbell One story I heard back in the day was that a herb importer got a shipment of some herb (basil or oregano) that was "hot". They were told to mix it with herb from another source to bring its radiation level per kilogram down to the legal limit...

Tinkeringbell

Yeah well, what else are legal limits for...

PM 2Ring

12:56

> Decades after the Chernobyl nuclear accident, wild boar meat is still surprisingly radioactive. The solution to the riddle: an important other cause had been overlooked. eurekalert.org/news-releases/1000093

VLAZ

@PM 2Ring @PM2Ring "Radioactive wild boar from Chernobyl" is the name of my metal band.

PM 2Ring

13:17

We occasionally talk about Chernobyl in the Physics chat.

in The h Bar on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Aug 9, 2019 at 17:52, by Loong

I wrote my thesis about one aspect of the Chernobyl accident. And I had been there myself. So I recognized many things.

Tinkeringbell

@PM 2Ring @PM2Ring Loong has a cool job :)

controlgroup

I’ve seen similar things as a mod elsewhere to get around simple keyword-recognition antispam, since lining up all the Unicode symbols that look like a certain character is fundamentally impossible

If we get around that, then it’s just adding new auto-flag keywords/phrases (killwords?) when new bots show up with new ideas

M.A.R.

15:19

Stack Exchange is a place for human created, curated, culminated, culinated, marinated, stir fried . . . Mmm, now I'm hungry

@controlgroup: :10063197 Just a thought: these spam posts seem to very frequently use special fonts that I don’t think I’ve ever seen posted by a normal user. maybe auto-flag if weird fonts/symbols detected in title

@controlgroup there is a filter for too many special characters in title, forgot what it's called exactly. It does get some FPs from math and physics, so it's not perfect

controlgroup

15:40

@M.A.R. @M.A.R. yeah that’d probably be a bigger issue

I could put a meta post asking for special characters/equations to stay out of titles for consistency; it already lags the Questions page when people put equations in titles because MathJax doesn’st get along with the other formatting already there

user152859

18:01

@PM 2Ring: https://sagecell.sagemath.org/?z=eJxdks2O2jAUhfd%2DilNY4DCeTGI6FRuvKrUrJDRiN6LITQyxJrGNfQNtn75yikZ0Vj7Xvn%5Ffkef4qsk4HX%2Dj8bY37XSU2G4gX6w7QVbyc1mtSynZRUe%2DSALULQRaP2jr1CIa3S8KMKahUJUrFqGgscxaPrOYwz

@PM2Ring ah, so that is indeed something new, which @balpha can hopefully check and even fix.

bobble

19:31

@controlgroup @controlgroup Puzzling has policies to restrict the use of emojis or MathJax (last bullet point of "When not to use MathJax") in titles, if you want to compare.

controlgroup

19:47

@bobble @bobble Exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about

rene

→ 19 messages moved to Chimney

→ 83 messages moved to Chimney

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