Question about Pragmatic Project Book: Java w/Ant details?

Hey Mike,

I got a question about the book.

The title, Pragmatic Project Automation: How to Build, Deploy, and Monitor Java Apps", states a lot. From the title it almost sounds like it's just all "high level" theory stuff. How detailed does it get on the Java and Ant side?

I just saw Erik Hatcher present on Ant for Newbies at the Dallas stop of NFJS and it's got me wanting to "dig in" and learn the details about applying Ant to Java projects. Where I work we normally have the build files just given to us, and we just use them without any detailed knowledge of what there doing in a "line by line" manner.

Thanks...
[ September 21, 2004: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]

Hi Erik,

The One-Step Builds chapter is a 30-page chapter that includes 15 pages on how to write an Ant build file, line by line, that compiles and tests an example application. It's as detailed as the Schedule Builds chapter is on how to set up CruiseControl.

The "How To" in the subtitle is really just that -- a how-to instruction manual for building, deploying, and monitoring Java projects. While each chapter does start with background concepts, the majority of the chapter content is hands-on recipes for putting automation to use. I'm a programmer by trade, and an author second, so I like lots of technical grit and I hope I delivered that to readers.

Hope that helps. If other readers wouldn't mind chiming in as to their experience with how "dig in" the book is, I'd appreciate it. After all, you are the best objective judges of the book. :-)

Mike

Originally posted by E Weibust:
The title, Pragmatic Project Automation: How to Build, Deploy, and Monitor Java Apps", states a lot. From the title it almost sounds like it's just all "high level" theory stuff. How detailed does it get on the Java and Ant side?

PPA is not what I'd consider a good choice for learning Ant. However, once you've learned Ant, I think buying PPA might be the best gift you've ever given yourself

Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
PPA is not what I'd consider a good choice for learning Ant.

Just a slight clarification: I don't consider it a good choice for learning Ant because it only scratches the surface and doesn't teach you all the tricks a dedicated book could. PPA will get you started, however.

Mike,

Thanks for the clarification. With a title like Pragmatic Project Automation: How to Build, Deploy, and Monitor Java Apps" I figured the book would either be a high-level concept book, or if I'm lucky a detailed, how-to book. I'm glad to hear it's the latter.

I haven't read any of the other books in the Pragmatic Bookshelf out of the same "high level" book fear. Are they written in the same style as yours and should I read the first two books before reading yours?

Also, is there a common theme that ties the code and examples in the book together or do they all stand on their own?

Originally posted by E Weibust:
I haven't read any of the other books in the Pragmatic Bookshelf out of the same "high level" book fear. Are they written in the same style as yours and should I read the first two books before reading yours?

I believe we've got some reviews of the earlier two titles from the Pragmatic Starter Kit. I'm also going to read Pragmatic Version Control soon (once I finish the one I'm reading right now) and I'll be posting a review of it as well.

Originally posted by E Weibust:
I haven't read any of the other books in the Pragmatic Bookshelf out of the same "high level" book fear. Are they written in the same style as yours and should I read the first two books before reading yours?

Also, is there a common theme that ties the code and examples in the book together or do they all stand on their own?

All three books use the same recipe-style learning approach. Folks generally find them to be easy to read because each book is under 175 pages and the writing style is narrative and to the point.

The books are intended to stand on their own, although they reinforce and complement each other. You can read them in any order. If you start with the automation book, for example, you'll learn about version control and unit testing because both of these practices are necessary for good project automation. But you won't find a lot of depth to version control and unit testing in the automation book. That's when you'll want to reach for the other books.

Mike

Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:

Just a slight clarification: I don't consider it a good choice for learning Ant because it only scratches the surface and doesn't teach you all the tricks a dedicated book could. PPA will get you started, however.

I agree. Erik Hatcher's book Java Development with Ant will teach you everything about Ant you'd ever want to know, and then some. I highly recommend it.

Pragmatic Project Automation shows you just enough Ant to get you started on a one-step build process. That's step #1 of project automation and it's covered in one chapter of PPA. Writing a definitive guide on Ant goes way beyond the scope of the book, and with Erik's book already available, there's just no need to go there.

Mike

Originally posted by Mike Clark:
I agree. Erik Hatcher's book Java Development with Ant will teach you everything about Ant you'd ever want to know, and then some. I highly recommend it.

Seconded - I always have it in reach, even though I don't use it that often any longer (the ant online manual is quite good, most often it suffices to me). It was great for understanding the details once I got the first scripts working - and invaluable when I wanted to write a custom task.