Catch 22 in the Java Market

Hello all.....
It is crazy how you can not get a job without experience, but you can not gain experience without a job.

When will the market pick up?
Should I relocate out of Minneapolis?
Adny career advice?
Thanks
-patrick

I think a lot of people have that problem regardless of the job. Thats a part of life, especially in this bad job market. IF you have your certification go for the developers test. Keep programming at home, and study other web related topics. Eventually the market will get better, and you will get your "foot in the door"..we all gotta start from somewhere.

Almost everybody has/had this catch-22 in life. The lucky ones are those interns, they get their experiences during study time.
During last recession and last Bush time. I was in that catch-22 situation. I worked for a person/Co. almost round the clock, and got paid ~nothing. However, I became experienced when the market got better...
My daughter got a minimum waged part-time VC++ (The employer is still saying: she was the best!) programmer job when she just finished the first year in college. She could make a lot more as a waitress, and she did before that. However, she preferred the minimum waged job...
The result, she is in charge the software department of a Co. She just gradulated on Dec-2000.

In the current market, contribute to an open source project might be a good idea, but be ready for no-pay at all. You need to be highly motivated too...
We have a volunteer development team. We get a lot of hackers try to break in everyday. However, not many highly motivated people even finish our prerequisites.
Need Java real project experience? Join our project team here!

But Roseanne,
Why you never process those application for joining your real project team? I submitted my application 17/01/2002 and no response from than.
Oh! might be my application was rejected and sank into deep sea, just like my other thousands applications to employers. Well if that is the case, never mind Roseanne.

nan sh
We have not got your application at all, the last one we got was Jan 4th, 2002. It must be something wrong there. I remember you posted a problem, I asked you to tell some details. However, you did not answer. Did you get a auto generated email, if you did, please forward that to me. Thanks a lot!
BTW, I visited your site, it is a very good start. We want someone motivated like you. Knowledge is less important than motivation in our team. Could you please try to re-register, pay attention to the message on the last screen. If we have a bug, I need to fix it.
Roseanne

Originally posted by nan sh:

Oh! might be my application was rejected and sank into deep sea,

Not sure what happened to your application. Roseanne has been doing all the admin. singlehandedly.
But I do know that the yahoo groups is open now and the project site as open to view. Maybe you can take a look at the kind of projects listed.
I did look at your website -haven't tried your mock test yet but I see you are using (learning) servlets, jsp, jdbc,xml. Well that's what we are doing too. We'd like you to join if you are still interested. Feel free to send me a private message if you have any questions.

just like my other thousands applications to employers.

Oh Dear Nan! I wish I knew how to help here. Then my own applications would disappear either.
Good Luck.
regards,
Jyotsna
[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: Jyotsna Clarkin ]

Sorry for no answer to your question Roseanne, sometimes I surfed the net and very soon I forgot where I was several minutes ago. I have never revisited that web page since then.
As your web site is down right now, I report the bug here. When I filled the application form, the web site URL I type in www.mycgiserver.com/~nan111/index.html
then clicked submit button, and System rejected and said I did not fill in right URL..., Finally I try http://www.mycgiserver.com/~nan111/index.html and System accepted this time, and sent an auto email to me asked me to wait a week for approval.
I am waiting since then....

I've heard from decent sources that the market is starting to pick up but slowly. If you're sitting around and feel your skills are getting stale you might want to consider joining some open source effort.

Hi, Jim,
have you any suggestion about where to find opensource project.

A good place to start is either www.apache.org (for some very high profile ones) or www.sourceforge.net.
Kyle

Yeah, there are millions on Sourceforge. You can pick and choose whatever you want there. Check this one in particular webwork
This is one of Rickard's that I think may become big.
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Jim Baiter ]

Patrick,
My advice is for you to decide what you really really really want to do and then figure out a plan to make it happen. It may involve a bit of work: volunteer work (such as on open source projects) or another round of certification. I have done these things and it works. Life is too short to have a so-so job. Get a great job, it's possible!
Tony