lannamichaels: Brachos 2a, caption: "There's a debate about that" (daf yomi)
Lanna Michaels ([personal profile] lannamichaels) wrote2025-09-02 10:41 am
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[Daf Yomi] Hadran Alach Maseches Avoda Zara & perek 5 HaSocher Es HaPoel



Avoda Zara was great! A lot of good stuff, a lot of really practical things.

There was some stuff in this masechta and this perek that I could have excerpted but didn't (I really probably should go back to the earlier perek that had the Jew and the goy sitting and drinking wine together and the goy being careful not to touch the wine because The Overwhelming Concern About Wine Libations When You Least Expect It but the Jew was like "no, it's cool, it's mevushal"), but just a general overall sense of living as a minority in an environment where you're working side by side, having work partnerships, living in the same buildings and in the same courtyards, etc, and the ensuing entanglements and how to navigate those in the real world. But also, wow. What on earth was going on with all those wine libations. Prevention of intermarriage, I understand, but no, even though that is an excuse, it's not the excuse for everything, a lot of the fear really does seem to be that ovdei avoda zara have an irresistible urge to do a wine libation every time they touch wine.

Next up: two weeks of What Happens When The Court Makes A Mistake, and then we're DONE WITH DAMAGES. :(

The rest of my Avoda Zara notes behind cut:





If the problem with sending gifts to goyim on the their festivals has to do with their avoda zarah, what if you know they don't do avoda zarah? Because sending gifts is happening.


רַב יְהוּדָה שַׁדַּר לֵיהּ קוּרְבָּנָא

The Gemara relates: Rav Yehuda sent a gift

לַאֲבִידַרְנָא בְּיוֹם אֵידָם, אָמַר: יָדַעְנָא בֵּיהּ דְּלָא פָּלַח לַעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב יוֹסֵף: וְהָתַנְיָא: אֵיזֶהוּ גֵּר תּוֹשָׁב? כֹּל שֶׁקִּיבֵּל עָלָיו בִּפְנֵי שְׁלֹשָׁה חֲבֵרִים שֶׁלֹּא לַעֲבוֹד עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה! כִּי תַּנְיָא הָהִיא — לְהַחְיוֹתוֹ.

to
a gentile named Avidarna on their festival day. Rav Yehuda said: I know of him that he does not worship idols, so he is not considered a gentile with regard to the prohibition against giving a gift to a gentile on their festival. Rav Yosef said to him: But isn’t it taught in a baraita: Who is a ger toshav? It is anyone who has accepted upon himself before three ḥaverim to not worship idols. Avidarna had not accepted this upon himself before three Jews. Rav Yehuda replied to him: When that baraita is taught, it is with regard to the mitzva to sustain him.

וְהָאָמַר רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: גֵּר תּוֹשָׁב שֶׁעָבְרוּ עָלָיו שְׁנֵים עָשָׂר חֹדֶשׁ וְלֹא מָל, הֲרֵי הוּא כְּמִין שֶׁבָּאוּמּוֹת! הָתָם כְּגוֹן שֶׁקִּיבֵּל עָלָיו לָמוּל וְלֹא מָל.

Rav Yosef further objected: But doesn’t Rabba bar bar Ḥana say that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: A ger toshav for whom twelve months passed without him circumcising himself is considered as a heretic of the gentiles, and certainly this Avidarna is not circumcised. Rav Yehuda replied: There, Rabbi Yoḥanan is referring to a case where the gentile who desired to become a ger toshav took it upon himself to become circumcised, but he recanted and did not circumcise himself, and in such a case it is assumed that he did not circumcise himself due to apostasy. Generally, in the case of a ger toshav who did not take this upon himself, this is not required of him.

רָבָא אַמְטִי לֵיהּ קוּרְבָּנָא לְבַר שֵׁישַׁךְ בְּיוֹם אֵידָם. אֲמַר: יָדַעְנָא בֵּיהּ דְּלָא פָּלַח לַעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה. אֲזַל אַשְׁכְּחֵיהּ דְּיָתֵיב עַד צַוְּארֵיהּ בְּוַורְדָּא, וְקָיְימָן זוֹנוֹת עֲרוּמּוֹת קַמֵּיהּ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִית לְכוּ כְּהַאי גַּוְונָא לְעָלְמָא דְּאָתֵי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: דִּידַן עֲדִיפָא טְפֵי מֵהַאי. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: טְפֵי מֵהַאי מִי הָוֵה? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אַתּוּן אִיכָּא עֲלַיְיכוּ אֵימְתָא דְּמַלְכוּתָא, אֲנַן לָא תֶּיהְוֵי עֲלַן אֵימְתָא דְמַלְכוּתָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אֲנָא מִיהָא מַאי אֵימְתָא דְּמַלְכוּתָא אִיכָּא עֲלַי?

The Gemara relates: Rava brought a gift to a minister named bar Sheshakh on their festival day. Rava said: I know of him that he does not worship idols. Rava went to him and found him sitting up to his neck in rose water, and naked prostitutes were standing before him. Bar Sheshakh said to him: Do you have anything as fine as this in the World-to-Come? Rava said to him: Ours is better than this. Bar Sheshakh said to him: Is there anything finer than this? Rava said to him: You have the fear of the government upon you; we will not have the fear of the government upon us in the World-to-Come. Bar Sheshakh said to him: As for me, in any event, what fear of the government is there upon me? I am a powerful man.

עַד דְּיָתְבִי, אֲתָא הָהוּא פְּרִיסְתָּקָא דְּמַלְכָּא, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: קוּם, דְּקָבָעֵי לָךְ מַלְכָּא. כִּי נָפֵיק וְאָזֵיל, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: עֵינָא דְּבָעֵי לְמִיחְזֵי לְכוּ בִּישׁוּתָא תִּיפְקַע. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבָא: אָמֵן. פְּקַע עֵינֵיהּ דְּבַר שֵׁישַׁךְ.

While they were sitting, a certain royal officer [peristaka] came
and said to bar Sheshakh: Rise, as the king requires you to appear before him. As he was going out, he said to Rava: May any eye that wishes to see evil upon you burst, as it is clear that you were correct. Rava said to him: Amen. And then bar Sheshakh’s eye burst.

אָמַר רַב פַּפִּי: אִיבְּעִי לֵיהּ לְמֵימְרָא לֵיהּ מֵהַאי קְרָא ״בְּנוֹת מְלָכִים בְּיִקְּרוֹתֶיךָ נִצְּבָה שֵׁגַל לִימִינְךָ בְּכֶתֶם אוֹפִיר״. אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: אִיבְּעִי לֵיהּ לְמֵימְרָא לֵיהּ מֵהָכָא ״עַיִן לֹא רָאָתָה אֱלֹהִים זוּלָתְךָ יַעֲשֶׂה לִמְחַכֵּה לוֹ״.

Rav Pappi said:
Rava should have said a response to him from this verse: “Kings’ daughters are among your favorites; at your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir” (Psalms 45:10), indicating that in the World-to-Come, the daughters of kings will serve the Jewish people. Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: He should have said a response to him from here: The reward of the Jewish people will be such that “no eye has seen it, God, aside from You, Who will do for those who await Him” (Isaiah 64:3).

Avoda Zara 64b-65a, bold is translation, unbold is not





A bunch of court cases where Rava says the wine is fine.


הָהוּא בֵּיתָא דַּהֲוָה יָתֵיב בֵּיהּ חַמְרָא דְּיִשְׂרָאֵל, עָל גּוֹי אַחְדַּהּ לְדַשָּׁא בְּאַפֵּיהּ, וַהֲוָה בִּיזְעָא בְּדַשָּׁא, אִישְׁתְּכַח גּוֹי דְּקָאֵי בֵּינֵי דַּנֵּי. אֲמַר רָבָא: כֹּל דְּלַהֲדֵי בִּיזְעָא — שְׁרֵי, דְּהַאי גִּיסָא וְהַאי גִּיסָא — אֲסִיר.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain house where Jews’ wine was stored. A gentile entered the house, and he locked the door before the Jew, but there was a crack in the door, and the gentile was found standing between the barrels. Rava said: All the barrels that were opposite the crack through which the gentile could be seen are permitted, because he would have been wary about being seen tampering with them. Barrels on this side and that side of the crack, where the gentile could not be seen, are forbidden, as perhaps the gentile used them for a libation.

הָהוּא חַמְרָא דְּיִשְׂרָאֵל, דַּהֲוָה יָתֵיב בְּבֵיתָא, דַּהֲוָה דָּיַיר יִשְׂרָאֵל בָּעֶלְיוֹנָה וְגוֹי בַּתַּחְתּוֹנָה. שְׁמַעוּ קָל תִּיגְרָא, נָפְקִי, קְדֵים אֲתָא גּוֹי אַחְדַּהּ לְדַשָּׁא בְּאַפֵּיהּ. אֲמַר רָבָא: חַמְרָא שְׁרֵי, מֵימָר אָמַר: כִּי הֵיכִי דִּקְדֵים אֲתַאי אֲנָא, קְדֵים וַאֲתָא יִשְׂרָאֵל וְיָתֵיב בָּעֶלְיוֹנָה וְקָא חָזֵי לִי.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain Jew’s wine that was stored in the lower story of a house, in which the Jew was living in the upper story and a gentile in the lower story, and the wine could be supervised from the upper story. One day the residents heard a sound of quarreling and went outside. The gentile came back in first and locked the door before the Jew. Rava said: The wine is permitted, because the gentile presumably said to himself: Just as I came back in early, perhaps my neighbor the Jew came back in early and is sitting in the upper story and watching me, and therefore he would not use the wine for a libation.

הָהוּא אוּשְׁפִּיזָא דַּהֲוָה יָתֵיב בֵּיהּ חַמְרָא דְּיִשְׂרָאֵל, אִישְׁתְּכַח גּוֹי דַּהֲוָה יָתֵיב בֵּי דַנֵּי. אֲמַר רָבָא: אִם נִתְפָּס עָלָיו כְּגַנָּב — שְׁרֵי, וְאִי לָא — אֲסִיר.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain inn [ushpiza] where a Jew’s wine was stored, and a gentile was found sitting among the barrels. Rava said: If he was caught as a thief, i.e., if the gentile seemed startled and did not have a good explanation for being there, the wine is permitted, as the gentile was presumably afraid about being caught and would not have used it for a libation. But if not, the wine is forbidden.

הָהוּא בֵּיתָא דַּהֲוָה יָתֵיב בֵּיהּ חַמְרָא, אִישְׁתְּכַח גּוֹי דַּהֲוָה קָאֵים בֵּי דַנֵּי. אֲמַר רָבָא: אִי אִית לֵיהּ לְאִישְׁתְּמוֹטֵי — חַמְרָא אֲסִיר, וְאִי לָא — חַמְרָא שְׁרֵי. מֵיתִיבִי: נִנְעַל הַפּוּנְדָּק, אוֹ שֶׁאָמַר לוֹ: ״שְׁמוֹר״ — אָסוּר. מַאי לָאו אַף עַל גַּב דְּלֵית לֵיהּ לְאִישְׁתְּמוֹטֵי? לָא, בִּדְאִית לֵיהּ לְאִישְׁתְּמוֹטֵי.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain house where wine was stored. A gentile was found standing among the barrels. Rava said: If he has a way to excuse his entrance to where the wine was stored, the wine is forbidden, but if not, the wine is permitted. The Gemara raises an objection to this ruling from a baraita: If an inn was locked and a gentile was inside, or if the Jew said to the gentile: Safeguard my wine, the wine is forbidden. What, is it not forbidden even if the gentile does not have a way to excuse his entrance? The Gemara answers: No, the baraita is referring to a situation where he does have a way to excuse his entrance; otherwise the wine is permitted.

הָהוּא יִשְׂרָאֵל וְגוֹי דַּהֲווֹ יָתְבִי וְקָא שָׁתוּ חַמְרָא, שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל קָל צַלּוֹיֵי בֵּי כְנִישְׁתָּא, קָם וַאֲזַל. אֲמַר רָבָא: חַמְרָא שְׁרֵי, מֵימָר אָמַר: הַשְׁתָּא מִדְּכַר לֵיהּ לְחַמְרֵיהּ וְהָדַר אָתֵי.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain Jew and a certain gentile who were sitting and drinking wine. The Jew heard the sound of praying at the synagogue. He got up and went to pray. Rava said: The wine is permitted, because the gentile presumably said to himself: Any moment now he will remember his wine and come back.

הָהוּא יִשְׂרָאֵל וְגוֹי דַּהֲווֹ יָתְבִי בְּאַרְבָּא, שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל קָל שִׁיפּוּרֵי דְּבֵי שִׁימְשֵׁי, נְפַק וַאֲזַל. אֲמַר רָבָא: חַמְרָא שְׁרֵי, מֵימָר אָמַר: הַשְׁתָּא מִדְּכַר לֵיהּ לְחַמְרֵיהּ וְהָדַר אָתֵי.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain Jew and a certain gentile who were sitting on a ship. The Jew heard the sound of the shofar of twilight indicating the beginning of Shabbat. He disembarked and went into town to spend Shabbat there. Rava said: The wine is permitted, because the gentile presumably said to himself: Any moment now he will remember his wine and come back.

וְאִי מִשּׁוּם שַׁבְּתָא, הָאָמַר רָבָא: אֲמַר לִי אִיסּוּר גִּיּוֹרָא, כִּי הֲוֵינַן בְּאַרְמָיוּתַן אָמְרִינַן: יְהוּדָאֵי לָא מְנַטְּרִי שַׁבְּתָא, דְּאִי מְנַטְּרִי שַׁבְּתָא כַּמָּה כִּיסֵי קָא מִשְׁתַּכְחִי בְּשׁוּקָא. וְלָא יָדַעְנָא דִּסְבִירָא לַן כְּרַבִּי יִצְחָק, דְּאָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק: הַמּוֹצֵא כִּיס בְּשַׁבָּת מוֹלִיכוֹ פָּחוֹת פָּחוֹת מֵאַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת.

The Gemara comments: And if one might object that the gentile is presumably not concerned because he knows that the Jew will not return until the end of Shabbat, didn’t Rava say: Issur the Convert told me: When we were still gentiles, before converting, we used to say: Jews do not actually observe Shabbat, as, if they observe Shabbat, how many wallets would be found in the marketplace that the Jews could not take on Shabbat? And I did not know that we maintain that the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yitzḥak, as Rabbi Yitzḥak says: One who finds a wallet on Shabbat may carry it in increments of less than four cubits. Evidently, gentiles assume that a Jew would violate Shabbat for monetary gain.

הָהוּא אַרְיָא דַּהֲוָה נָהֵים בְּמַעְצַרְתָּא, שְׁמַע גּוֹי, טְשָׁא בֵּינֵי דַּנֵּי. אָמַר רָבָא: חַמְרָא שְׁרֵי, מֵימָר אָמַר: כִּי הֵיכִי דְּטָשֵׁינָא אֲנָא, אִיטְשָׁא נָמֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֲחוֹרַיי וְקָא חָזֵי לִי.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain lion who roared in a winepress. A gentile heard the roar and was frightened, and he hid among the barrels of wine. Rava said: The wine is permitted, because the gentile presumably said to himself: Just as I am hiding, a Jew might also be hiding behind me and see me.

הָנְהוּ גַּנָּבֵי דְּסָלְקִי לְפוּמְבְּדִיתָא, וּפְתַחוּ חָבְיָתָא טוּבָא. אֲמַר רָבָא: חַמְרָא שְׁרֵי. מַאי טַעְמָא? רוּבָּא גַּנָּבֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל נִינְהוּ. הֲוָה עוֹבָדָא בִּנְהַרְדְּעָא, וְאָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל: חַמְרָא שְׁרֵי.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving certain thieves who came to Pumbedita and opened many barrels of wine. Rava said: The wine is permitted. What is the reason? Most of the thieves in Pumbedita are Jews, and the halakha follows the majority, and therefore the wine is not rendered forbidden. There was a similar incident in Neharde’a, and Shmuel said: The wine is permitted.

כְּמַאן? כְּרַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר, דְּאָמַר: סְפֵק בִּיאָה טָהוֹר.

The Gemara asks: In accordance with whose opinion is this? Perhaps it is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, who says with regard to cases of uncertainty concerning ritual purity that if the uncertainty is with regard to a person’s entry into a certain place, he is deemed pure.

דִּתְנַן: הַנִּכְנָס לְבִקְעָה בִּימוֹת הַגְּשָׁמִים, וְטוּמְאָה בְּשָׂדֶה פְּלוֹנִית, וְאָמַר: הָלַכְתִּי בַּמָּקוֹם הַלָּז, וְאֵינִי יוֹדֵעַ אִם נִכְנַסְתִּי לְאוֹתָהּ שָׂדֶה אִם לֹא נִכְנַסְתִּי, רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אוֹמֵר: סְפֵק בִּיאָה — טָהוֹר, סְפֵק מַגָּע — טָמֵא!

This is as we learned in a mishna (Teharot 6:5): With regard to one who enters into a valley during the rainy season, i.e., winter, when people generally do not enter this area, and there was ritual impurity in such and such a field, and he said: I know I walked to that place, i.e., I walked in the valley, but I do not know whether I entered that field where the ritual impurity was or whether I did not enter, Rabbi Eliezer says: In a case of uncertainty with regard to entry, i.e., it is uncertain whether he entered the area where the ritual impurity is located, he is ritually pure. But if he certainly entered the area where the ritual impurity is located and the uncertainty pertains to contact with the source of ritual impurity, he is ritually impure. Apparently, the ruling of Shmuel, that in a case where it is uncertain whether gentile thieves entered the house at all the wine is permitted, is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer.

לָא, שָׁאנֵי הָתָם, כֵּיוָן דְּאִיכָּא דְּפָתְחִי לְשׁוּם מָמוֹנָא, הָוֵה לֵיהּ סְפֵק סְפֵיקָא.

The Gemara rejects this: No, it is different there, with regard to the wine barrels. Since there are thieves who open barrels for the sake of perhaps finding money in them and are not interested in the wine, it is a case of compound uncertainty, as it is uncertain whether the thieves were gentiles or Jews, and even if they were gentiles, it is uncertain whether or not they touched the wine. In a case of compound uncertainty, everyone agrees that the wine is not forbidden.

הָהִיא רְבִיתָא דְּאִישְׁתְּכַח דַּהֲוָת בֵּי דַנֵּי, וַהֲוָת נְקִיטָא אוּפְיָא בִּידַהּ, אָמַר רָבָא: חַמְרָא שְׁרֵי, אֵימַר מִגַּבַּהּ דְּחָבִיתָא שְׁקַלְתֵּיהּ, וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּלֵיכָּא תּוּ, אֵימַר אִתְרְמוֹיֵי אִתְרְמִי לַהּ.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain gentile girl who was found among wine barrels and she was holding wine froth in her hand. Rava said: The wine is permitted, as it is reasonable to say that she took it from the outside of the barrel and not from inside the barrel. And even if there is no more of the froth on the outside of the barrel, it is reasonable to say that she happened upon the froth while it was still there, even though it is no longer there.

-Avoda Zara 70a-70b





What do armies want.


הָהוּא פּוּלְמוּסָא דִּסְלֵיק לִנְהַרְדְּעָא, פְּתַחוּ חָבְיָתָא טוּבָא. כִּי אֲתָא רַב דִּימִי אָמַר: עוֹבָדָא הֲוָה קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר, וּשְׁרָא. וְלָא יָדַעְנָא, אִי מִשּׁוּם דְּסָבַר לַהּ כְּרַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר דְּאָמַר: סְפֵק בִּיאָה טָהוֹר, אִי מִשּׁוּם דְּסָבַר: רוּבָּא דְּאָזְלִי בַּהֲדֵי פּוּלְמוּסָא יִשְׂרָאֵל נִינְהוּ.

The Gemara relates: There was an incident involving a certain army [pulmusa] that entered Neharde’a and opened many barrels of wine. When Rav Dimi came from Eretz Yisrael to Babylonia, he said: There was a similar incident that was brought before Rabbi Elazar, and he deemed the wine permitted. But I do not know whether he permitted it because he holds in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, who says: Concerning uncertainty with regard to entry, the person or item is ritually pure, or whether he permitted it because he maintains that most of those who went with that army were Jews, i.e., that although it was a gentile army, the ancillaries were mostly Jews.

אִי הָכִי, הַאי סְפֵק בִּיאָה? סְפֵק מַגָּע הוּא! כֵּיוָן דְּמִפַּתְחִי טוּבָא, אֵימָא אַדַּעְתָּא דְּמָמוֹנָא פְּתַחוּ, וְכִסְפֵק בִּיאָה דָּמֵי.

The Gemara asks: If that is so, if he holds in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, why did he permit the wine? Is this a case of uncertainty with regard to entry? It is clear that the ancillaries came and opened the barrels, so it is a case of uncertainty with regard to contact, i.e., whether they touched the wine or not, and Rabbi Eliezer agrees that such a case is treated stringently. The Gemara answers: Since they opened many barrels, it is reasonable to say that they opened the barrels only with the intention of finding money and had no interest in the wine itself. And therefore it is similar to a case of uncertainty with regard to entry.

-Avoda Zarah 70b

מַתְנִי׳ בּוֹלֶשֶׁת שֶׁנִּכְנְסָה לְעִיר, בִּשְׁעַת שָׁלוֹם — חָבִיּוֹת פְּתוּחוֹת אֲסוּרוֹת, סְתוּמוֹת מוּתָּרוֹת; בִּשְׁעַת מִלְחָמָה — אֵלּוּ וְאֵלּוּ מוּתָּרוֹת, לְפִי שֶׁאֵין פְּנַאי לְנַסֵּךְ.

MISHNA:
In the case of a military unit [boleshet] that entered a city, if it entered during peacetime, then after the soldiers leave the open barrels of wine are forbidden, but the sealed barrels are permitted. If the unit entered in wartime, both these barrels and those barrels are permitted, because in wartime there is no time to pour wine for libations, and one can be certain that the soldiers did not do so.

גְּמָ׳ וּרְמִינְהִי: עִיר שֶׁכְּבָשׁוּהָ כַּרְקוֹם — כׇּל כֹּהֲנוֹת שֶׁבְּתוֹכָהּ פְּסוּלוֹת! אָמַר רַב מָרִי: לְנַסֵּךְ אֵין פְּנַאי, לִבְעוֹל יֵשׁ פְּנַאי.

GEMARA:
And the Gemara raises a contradiction to the assumption that soldiers during wartime do not have time to commit transgressions from that which is taught in another mishna (Ketubot 27a): With regard to a city that was conquered by an army laying siege, all the women married to priests located in the city are unfit and forbidden to their husbands, due to the concern that they were raped. Rav Mari resolved the contradiction and said: They do not have time to pour wine for libations, as their passion for idolatry is not pressing at that time, but they have time to engage in intercourse, because their lust is great even during wartime.

-Avoda Zara 70b-71a






"I need a rabbi to come kasher my kitchen, I mean, winepress".


כִּי הָהוּא דַּאֲתָא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי חִיָּיא, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הַב לִי גַּבְרָא (דדכי) [דִּמְדַכֵּי] לִי מַעְצַרְתַּאי, אֲמַר לֵיהּ לְרַב: זִיל בַּהֲדֵיהּ וַחֲזִי דְּלָא מְצַוְּחַתְּ עֲלַי בֵּי מִדְרְשָׁא. אֲזַל חַזְיַיהּ דַּהֲוָה שִׁיעָא טְפֵי, אֲמַר: הָא וַדַּאי בְּנִיגּוּב סַגִּי לַהּ. בַּהֲדֵי דְּקָא אָזֵיל וְאָתֵי, חֲזָא פִּילָא מִתּוּתֵיהּ וַחֲזָא דַּהֲוָה מְלֵא חַמְרָא, אֲמַר: הָא לָא סַגִּי לַהּ בְּנִיגּוּב אֶלָּא בְּקִילּוּף, וְהַיְינוּ דַּאֲמַר לִי חַבִּיבִי: חֲזִי דְּלָא מְצַוְּחַתְּ עֲלַי בֵּי מִדְרְשָׁא.

This is similar to an incident involving a certain man who came before Rabbi Ḥiyya and said to him: Give me a man who will purify my winepress that I purchased from a gentile. Rabbi Ḥiyya said to Rav: Go with him and see to it that you conduct yourself in such a manner that will not cause people to complain against me in the study hall. Rav went with him and saw that the winepress was very smooth with pitch. Rav said: Cleansing will certainly be sufficient for this, because it does not absorb the wine. While Rav was going and coming, he saw a crack underneath his feet and saw that it was full of wine. He then said: Cleansing is not sufficient for this; rather, it requires peeling. And this is what my uncle [ḥavivi] meant when he said to me: See to it that you do not cause people to complain against me in the study hall.

-Avoda Zara 74b






Classic hagala problems of the pot being too big to stick it into another pot.


וְעַד כַּמָּה מְלַבְּנָן? אָמַר רַבִּי מִנִּי: עַד שֶׁתַּשִּׁיר קְלִיפָּתָן. וְכֵיצַד מַגְעִילָן? אָמַר רַב הוּנָא: יוֹרָה קְטַנָּה בְּתוֹךְ יוֹרָה גְּדוֹלָה.

Returning to the mishna, the Gemara asks: And how much does one heat utensils to make them white-hot? Rabbi Mani says: Until they shed their outer layer. And how does one purge utensils with boiling water? Rav Huna says: One immerses a small kettle inside a large kettle of boiling water.

יוֹרָה גְּדוֹלָה, מַאי? תָּא שְׁמַע: דְּהָהוּא דּוּדָא דַּהֲוַאי בֵּי רַב עֲקַבְיָה, אַהְדַּר לַהּ.

The Gemara asks: What does one do with a large kettle? The Gemara suggests: Come and hear an answer from an incident involving a certain cauldron that was in the house of Rav Akavya and required purging. He surrounded it

גְּדָנְפָא דְּלַיְשָׁא אַפּוּמַּאּ, וּמַלְּיַוהּ מַיָּא וְאַרְתְּחַהּ. אָמַר רָבָא: מַאן חַכִּים לְמֶעְבַּד כִּי הָא מִילְּתָא, אִי לָאו רַב עֲקַבְיָה דְּגַבְרָא רַבָּא הוּא? קָסָבַר: כְּבוֹלְעוֹ כָּךְ פּוֹלְטוֹ — מָה בּוֹלְעוֹ בְּנִצוֹצוֹת, אַף פּוֹלְטוֹ בְּנִצוֹצוֹת.

with a rim [gedanfa] of dough around its rim, and filled it with water and boiled it, so that the water boiled along its rim. Rava said: Who would be clever enough to perform such an action if not Rav Akavya, as he is a great man. He maintains that as it absorbs it so it expels it; just as the rim absorbs the forbidden substance by small drops of it that reach the rim, so too it expels the forbidden substance by small drops of boiling water that reach the rim.

-Avoda Zara 76a-76b






I'D THOUGHT THE "SHOVE IT IN THE GROUND" WAS A RANDOM BULLSHIT SHTETL MINHAG BECAUSE YOUR GRANDMOTHER COULDN'T AFFORD A NEW KNIFE, NO, IT'S IN THE GEMARA. (the idea is that the dirt is an abrasive cleaner)

The Artscroll footnote does bend over backwards to be like, no, we do not actually do this, and even if we did it it would be just for cold food, and the thing about sticking it in the ground and leaving it there is a "misconception" we don't do any of this please ignore. Of course, two footnotes later, they are forced to acknowledge that an esrog is a sharp food...



הַסַּכִּין — שָׁפָהּ וְהִיא טְהוֹרָה. אָמַר רַב עוּקְבָא בַּר חָמָא: וְנוֹעֲצָהּ עֲשָׂרָה פְּעָמִים בַּקַּרְקַע. אֲמַר רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוֹשֻׁעַ: וּבְקַרְקַע שֶׁאֵינָהּ עֲבוּדָה. אָמַר רַב כָּהֲנָא: וּבְסַכִּין יָפָה שֶׁאֵין בָּהּ גּוּמּוֹת. תַּנְיָא נָמֵי הָכִי: סַכִּין יָפָה שֶׁאֵין בָּהּ גּוּמּוֹת נוֹעֲצָהּ עֲשָׂרָה פְּעָמִים בְּקַרְקַע. אָמַר רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב יְהוֹשֻׁעַ: לֶאֱכוֹל בָּהּ צוֹנֵן.

The mishna teaches: With regard to the knife, one must polish it and it is rendered pure. Rav Ukva bar Ḥama says: And one must thrust it ten times into the ground. Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, says: And this must be done in untilled earth, i.e., hard earth. Rav Kahana says: And this applies to a good knife that does not have notches, so that the entire surface of the knife is scraped against the ground. This is also taught in a baraita: With regard to a good knife that does not have notches, one can thrust it ten times into the ground. Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, says: This is sufficient for the purpose of eating cold food with it.

כִּי הָא דְּמָר יְהוּדָה וּבָאטִי בַּר טוֹבִי הֲווֹ יָתְבִי קַמֵּיהּ דְּשַׁבּוּר מַלְכָּא, אַיְיתוֹ לְקַמַּיְיהוּ אֶתְרוֹגָא. פְּסַק אֲכַל, פְּסַק וְהַב לֵיהּ לְבָאטִי בַּר טוֹבִי, הֲדַר דָּצַהּ עַשְׂרָה זִימְנֵי בְּאַרְעָא, פְּסַק הַב לֵיהּ לְמָר יְהוּדָה. אֲמַר לֵיהּ בָּאטִי בַּר טוֹבִי: וְהָהוּא גַּבְרָא לָאו בַּר יִשְׂרָאֵל הוּא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מָר קִים לִי בְּגַוֵּיהּ, וּמָר לָא קִים לִי בְּגַוֵּיהּ.

This is like that incident involving Mar Yehuda, an important personage of the house of the Exilarch, and Bati bar Tuvi, a wealthy man, who were sitting before King Shapur, the king of Persia. The king’s servants brought an etrog before them. The king cut a slice and ate it, and then he cut a slice and gave it to Bati bar Tuvi. He then stuck the knife ten times in the ground, cut a slice, and gave it to Mar Yehuda. Bati bar Tuvi said to him: And is that man, referring to himself, not Jewish? King Shapur said to him: I am certain of that master, Mar Yehuda, that he is meticulous about halakha; but I am not certain of that master, referring to Bati bar Tuvi, that he is meticulous in this regard.

אִיכָּא דְאָמְרִי, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִידְּכַר מַאי עֲבַדְתְּ בְּאוּרְתָּא.

There are
those who say that King Shapur said to him: Remember what you did last night. The Persian practice was to present a woman to each guest, with whom he would engage in intercourse. Mar Yehuda did not accept the woman who was sent to him, but Bati bar Tuvi did, and therefore he was not assumed to be meticulous with regard to eating kosher food.

-Avoda Zara 76b




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