Timeline for How do I make the case for expensive programmers?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
38 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 2, 2017 at 10:07 | review | Close votes | |||
| Dec 11, 2017 at 3:06 | |||||
| Dec 2, 2017 at 9:50 | history | edited | gnat | edited tags | |
| Apr 6, 2017 at 21:02 | comment | added | user1721135 | @mickeyf it probaly costs a lot. Not sure how much though. | |
| Apr 6, 2017 at 18:32 | comment | added | user244218 | "The beginner programmers waste a lot of time of everybody else" And this costs how much? | |
| Apr 5, 2017 at 9:26 | review | Close votes | |||
| Apr 5, 2017 at 18:20 | |||||
| Apr 4, 2017 at 9:19 | history | protected | gnat | ||
| Apr 4, 2017 at 9:03 | answer | added | SmallChess | timeline score: 5 | |
| Apr 4, 2017 at 8:48 | comment | added | Michał Kuliński | Uncle Bob has some thoughts on senior/junior developers ratio: blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2014/06/20/MyLawn.html | |
| Apr 3, 2017 at 20:58 | comment | added | Sebastianb | Just to add to the anecdotal statistics, I'm a web developer with a couple of years of experience and a bachelor degree, and I'm earning the equivalent of 15K usd anually (and I'm earning more than the average here). | |
| Mar 23, 2017 at 12:59 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/StackSoftEng/status/844896278186217472 | ||
| Mar 16, 2017 at 17:24 | comment | added | Ewan | HSBC is off to birmingham for example | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 16:56 | answer | added | JeffO | timeline score: 3 | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 16:23 | comment | added | JeffO | 'it takes experienced and beginner the same amount of time to make a table in HTML.," but it takes an experienced developer less time to NOT make a table in HTML when you don't need one and especially when a better solution is needed. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 14:19 | comment | added | Vincent Savard | Blaise Pascal once wrote: "I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time". I feel like the same can be said of this situation: "I would have hired a cheaper programmer, but I did not have the money". Turns out it can be very expensive to create an unmaintanable system. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 12:52 | answer | added | gnasher729 | timeline score: 4 | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 11:47 | comment | added | gnasher729 | @Ewan: Please give an example of a large company that has left London in the last two years to find cheaper software developers elsewhere in the UK. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 10:54 | answer | added | Joeri Sebrechts | timeline score: 6 | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 9:30 | comment | added | Ewan | They do! but for a big employer the number of available employees is more important than the cost per head | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 9:17 | comment | added | gnasher729 | @Ewan: I wonder why nobody is doing it then. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 9:17 | comment | added | gnasher729 | @Jules: That company in the USA won't be able to hire that average junior developer in the UK for $27K. Or for £27K. Because "hiring" means following UK laws, paying tax, pension, national insurance, long holidays, sick pay, and so on. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 8:45 | comment | added | Ewan | @jules is right, if you are a big company with lots of developers its worth moving out of london | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 6:50 | answer | added | Ewan | timeline score: 4 | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 5:46 | answer | added | Derek Elkins left SE | timeline score: 11 | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 4:48 | comment | added | gnat | see How do I explain ${something} to ${someone}? | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 4:24 | answer | added | Jerry Coffin | timeline score: 7 | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 2:40 | comment | added | Robert Harvey | @jules: In order to outsource/offshore, you have to write a very detailed specification, a process which could take as much time as experienced programmers would take just writing the actual program. Don't take my word for it, talk to anyone who's attempted offshoring. I have. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 1:45 | review | Close votes | |||
| Mar 23, 2017 at 3:02 | |||||
| Mar 16, 2017 at 1:23 | answer | added | mcottle | timeline score: 60 | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 1:05 | comment | added | Jules | @RobertHarvey - depends on the marketplace. If you compare outsourcing programmers internationally versus hiring locally, you could easily find somebody with some experience who will work for less than 4x the going rate for experienced developers in your local market. You don't even have to go to really cheap places to see that kind of difference. An average junior developer in the UK (outside of London) earns about $27K. The same developer in California would earn about $64K. Add 10 years experience, and the Californian developer would earn about $135K. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 0:45 | answer | added | Christophe | timeline score: 19 | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 0:25 | comment | added | Robert Harvey | Both are basically able to complete the seemingly simple things in the same amount of time. -- Well, the experienced programmer saves substantial time in the long run because you didn't have to give him more specific instructions on exactly what to do. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 0:25 | comment | added | Robert Harvey | Let's say the experienced programmers costs us 4x as much as the beginners. -- That is unlikely. The ratio is more like 2x or 3x. If you're paying programmers that poorly, what you're really doing is hiring amateurs and training them to do the job you need, only to have them leave your company for greener pastures once they get a minimal amount of experience under their belt. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 0:19 | comment | added | Kasey Speakman | I'd say it pays to have at least one seasoned developer that can hit the ground running and handle harder problems as they arise (pref with soft skills as @BenCottrell mentioned). Then hire depending on your budget and situation. If the budget is tight, you can probably make due with a really talented junior to lead the way, but you will pay later for their mistakes. Senior devs are certainly capable of making foundational mistakes too, but usually they have already been bitten enough to avoid common ones. And if your budget is too tight, a talented junior probably won't stick around anyway. | |
| Mar 16, 2017 at 0:06 | history | edited | Robert Harvey | CC BY-SA 3.0 | deleted 78 characters in body |
| Mar 15, 2017 at 22:50 | comment | added | Ben Cottrell | You might also consider employing developers with a minimum standard of 'soft' (non-technical) skills rather than just looking at experience. i.e. developers who are proactive in team discussions, who are capable of managing their own time and workload; who will actively seek to engage/communicate with the rest of the development team. While experience may play a part in this, it's more down to their attitude. If you're successful, then you shouldn't even need a PM, so you can save on their salary instead. | |
| Mar 15, 2017 at 22:28 | comment | added | david25272 | Experienced programmers will produce code more quickly and with fewer bugs, but they'll also get bored fast working on simple projects. | |
| Mar 15, 2017 at 22:06 | review | First posts | |||
| Mar 16, 2017 at 9:13 | |||||
| Mar 15, 2017 at 22:04 | history | asked | user1721135 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |