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  • I included the server's suite list in my question, but the server doesn't necessarily get to choose the suite because with TLSv1.3 (unlike 1.2 and below), all choices are good, and it's preferable to have the client choose in those circumstances. Commented Apr 4, 2022 at 18:09
  • I can't find reference to the idea that the client chooses which suite from the list to use. Do you have a reference for this? The client of course could submit a preference list which doesn't include cipher suites which would be too slow for them but the server ultimately selects from that list (to my current knowledge). Commented Apr 4, 2022 at 18:14
  • See update to my Q about that Commented Apr 4, 2022 at 19:58
  • Can you explain this "why macOS would select" line? We now know the final ciphersuite is chosen by the server. So I'm a bit confused why this line persists. Did your macbook send a preferred ciphersuite list which only contains chacha or something? Commented Apr 4, 2022 at 20:32
  • No we don't know that. The upshot of that update is that there is no server order for TLSv1.3 suites, and it is up to the client after all. The server order policy appears to simply not apply to 1.3 suites. I tested it by removing ChaCha20 from the server's list, and the client was then happy to pick an AES suite, so it's not that the client lacks support but that it appears to actively prefer ChaCha20, hence my question - why? Commented Apr 4, 2022 at 20:37