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Roughly a year ago I foolishly decided to try to build this guitar amplifier from a site I found. Long story short, it doesn't work and I have a hard time understanding why.

Circuit & test setup

The output stage has been built on perfboard with the output transistors (Q5, Q6) and the Vbe multiplier (Q4) mounted on the same (decently sized) heatsink.

Component list
R14 - 33k
R13 - 470k
R12 - 1k5
R11 - 4k7
R10 - 470R
R9 - 2k multiturn trim
C12 - 1000 uF electrolytic
C11 - 47pF ceramic
C8, C9, C10 - 47uF electrolytic
Q3 - BC182
Q4 - BD135
Q5 - BDX53C darlington (instead of BDX53A)
Q6 - BDX54C darlington (instead of BDX54A)
SPKR - 4ohm power resistor

The amplifier circuit

The output stage is being tested with a signal generator giving a 2kHz, 200mV peak sine wave that is then fed through a OP-amp input follower before being fed into C9. The output was read over the SPKR load. The circuit is being powered by a 24V 2A-limited PSU.

Notice
This test setup is both wrong and bad. Please do not use it for testing as you will not get good results.

  • This circuit should have at least 30V for supply.
  • The amplifier uses the resistance of volume pot to directly control the output stage gain. You cannot connect C9 directly to a low impedance output. Q3 amplifies the current trough it. The gain will be massive.

Stuff I tried

(I have skipped a lot of earlier fiddling around. I have managed to get a proper sine wave as output once or so, but with distortion or low gain)

  1. I built the full circuit on a breadboard and moved the output stage to perfboard. I had a lot of problems with it. Because I didn't trust the breadboard portion I decided to test the output stage directly.
  2. After replacing Q5 and Q6 with new transistors, the output briefly looked "better" (I think it followed the input sine better but had a lot of distortion). I have never managed to make the circuit do this again. R9 was set to 0ohms.
  3. Without the input follower the signal generator 600ohm impedance makes the input sag severely. So I added one. I think the input signal got a lot noisier from this.
  4. The amplifier output starts doing this

Output

The tail part of the big curve looks like this:

Output zoomed-in

Some of my notes here are a bit contradictory here, but I think this is always caused by the large output current causing the PSU to current-limit and until the voltage got low enough, causing the output to plummet. I think the feedback network might be to blame?

  1. There are no trace-to-trace short circuits. I found no shorts through the transistors when I tested them in circuit. (The traces for the power Q5,Q6 transistors are close to releasing so I want to avoid desoldering.)

  2. Setting the Vbe multiplier to ~2.8V seems to have plausible(?) quiescent current of 4mA. But any signal still gives the output from earlier.

Questions

  1. Why is this oscillation happening? Is it because of the feedback network doesn't work with the swapped-out transistors or is something else broken? How do I redesign it?
  2. How can I be sure that nothing is broken without desoldering Q5, Q6?
  3. Is a output of 10W over 4ohm speaker plausible for this circuit?
  4. How do I set the R9 pot (quiescent current)? Measuring the current for the whole circuit as the site says feels unreliable. I was thinking about just checking for crossover distortion.

Sorry if these questions are stupid, I have spent a lot of time trying to understand and fix this amp and I'm out of ideas. Feel free to suggest a different circuit if this is unsalvageable.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Breadboard and badly constructed perf board will very likely be an issue. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 3 at 12:32
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    \$\begingroup\$ "C11 - 57pF electrolytic" - that doesn't sound right. The picofarads value makes sense, but 57 is a weird number, and electrolytic in the picofarads is just crazy. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 3 at 13:02
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    \$\begingroup\$ C11 - 57pF electrolytic... seems very strange. Otherwise, component values are reasonable. First step in troubleshooting: check DC bias conditions. Do you know what DC voltages should appear at every point? Note that the speaker is an important part of the feedback network, and must be present while troubleshooting. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 3 at 13:04
  • \$\begingroup\$ Ah dammit, it just checked and C11 should be 47pF ceramic. I have very little info on the expected voltages, but I have been trying to make LTspice to get me answers on that, it's just that I keep getting weird results (the gain is absolutely crazy high for some reason). \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 3 at 13:22
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    \$\begingroup\$ 47 or 57 pF are both very strange values for these frequencies. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 3 at 13:22

5 Answers 5

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The first thing I like to do is to redraw the schematic. In the process of redrawing it, I also work to understand each section as I go.

output stage

Since the output power is the primary goal, I would start first with what I recognize as a 2-quadrant class-AB output stage:

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

It's just two parts. But already there's a few things to stop and consider.

The present circuit can deliver 10W of output power when driving an 8 Ohm load, or about 18W @ 4 Ohm.

So the output spec is \$10\:\text{W}\$ into \$8\:\Omega\$ or \$18\:\text{W}\$ into \$4\:\Omega\$. I can work out that the peak voltage excursion must be \$V_{\small{PEAK}}=\sqrt{2\cdot 4\:\Omega\cdot 18\:\text{W}}= 12 \:\text{V}\$ (the RMS voltage is \$V_{\small{RMS}}\approx 8.5\:\text{V}\$) or else \$V_{\small{PEAK}}=\sqrt{2\cdot 8\:\Omega\cdot 10\:\text{W}}= 12.6 \:\text{V}\$ (the RMS voltage is \$V_{\small{RMS}}\approx 8.9\:\text{V}\$.)

The peak current into the load must be \$I_{\small{PEAK}}=\sqrt{\frac{2\cdot 18\:\text{W}}{4\:\Omega}}\approx 3.0 \:\text{A}\$ into \$4\:\Omega\$ (the RMS current is \$I_{\small{RMS}}\approx 2.1\:\text{A}\$) or \$I_{\small{PEAK}}=\sqrt{\frac{2\cdot 10\:\text{W}}{8\:\Omega}}\approx 3.0 \:\text{A}\$ into \$8\:\Omega\$ (the RMS current is \$I_{\small{RMS}}\approx 1.1\:\text{A}\$).

So already I have my first set of sanity checks.

Including now the datasheets for the BDX53A and BDX54A (using Mouser here):

  • The referenced schematic shows \$T_1\$ as a \$48\:\text{V}\$ CT transformer with \$\ge 20\:\text{VA}\$ rating. The arrangement of the DC power supply appears consistent with the goals.
  • The VA rating of a transformer is the total apparent power, which involves both the primary and secondary. In the case of full-wave center-tapped arrangement, there is a an additional \$\sqrt{2}\$ factor applied to the secondary portion. The schematic specifies from \$20\:\text{VA}\$ to \$30\:\text{VA}\$. So, assuming a good quality transformer with a 5% regulation spec, I can expect about \$\frac{20\:\text{VA}}{\left(1+\sqrt{2}\right)\cdot\left(1-5\%\right)}\approx 8.7\:\text{W}\$. This doesn't meet the spec. So let's try their other number: \$\frac{30\:\text{VA}}{\left(1+\sqrt{2}\right)\cdot\left(1-5\%\right)}\approx 13\:\text{W}\$. That also doesn't meet the spec.
  • Doubling the worst case \$V_{\small{PEAK}}\$, and accounting something for circuit overhead, I'd know that the power supply rail must not fall below \$\approx 30\:\text{V}\$ and likely should be higher. In round numbers, I'd also expect a loaded DC rail of about \$30\:\text{V}\$. This may be cutting things a little close. But I've been conservative so far. So perhaps this is fine.
  • \$Q_5\$ and \$Q_6\$ must be able to more than support the required currents. The referenced schematic indicates that the two output power transistors are sufficient and consistent with the goals.
  • \$Q_5\$ and \$Q_6\$ must be within their safe operating areas. They seem to be.

I'd also make a note to myself to verify that the DC rail meets the above, if and when the circuit is actively under test. Especially because of the transformer issues mentioned above and when under full loading.

An additional note as I move forward:

  • Their minimum \$h_{\small{FE}}=750\$, with the typical value being about \$3\times\$ more. So the base current into these two transistors will not have to exceed a peak of \$3\:\text{mA}\$ but may only require \$1\:\text{mA}\$, in practice.

The biasing section, including the VBE multiplier, must be consistent with this requirement.

biasing section

Now I'd add in the biasing section from the schematic and add in the speaker output:

schematic

simulate this circuit

There's the usual VBE multiplier (but lacking any Early Effect compensation) and the commonly found use of a bootstrap capacitor to help turn \$R_{11}\$ into a bit of a cheap current source. There's also the usual VAS stage, \$Q_3\$, but lacking the usual Miller cap between its base and collector.

Let's estimate the DC rail as \$30\:\text{V}\$. Then the shared emitter node of the circuit should be biased to about half that, or \$15\:\text{V}\$. The datasheets suggest a worst case \$2.5\:\text{V}\$ for either Darlington, so figure about \$17.5\:\text{V}\$ at the base of \$Q_5\$.

At this point, I can estimate a quiescent current of \$\frac{30\:\text{V}-15\:\text{V}-2.5\:\text{V}}{1.5\:\text{k}\Omega+4.7\:\text{k}\Omega}\approx 2.0\:\text{mA}\$. But \$3\:\text{mA}\$ was the conservative figure, although \$1\:\text{mA}\$ may be acceptable.

Then I add in some stuff that's a little odd:

schematic

simulate this circuit

Note that I've added and highlighted a section of weird biasing, with NFB on the right side.

Up to this point, just these modest surprises: (1) a transformer that may be under-spec'd but is otherwise perfectly normal-looking; and, (2) a VBE multiplier current that may be only a little bit shy of a more conservative value, but not in much of a concerning way.

But now there's this moment when everything comes to a tight wad of: (3) DC biasing for \$Q_3\$; and, (4) some kind of frequency dependent AC negative feedback; and, (5) \$Q_3\$ driven by a JFET source follower via a potentiometer.

It all happens in a collision of sorts, a Gordian Knot, right here.

That's where some of the power from walking through a schematic, redrawing and extracting familiar topologies a step at a time, may be found. It helps uncover/expose residual unfamiliar bits, making them manifest and demanding more focused attention.

Exposed like this, I feel \$Q_3\$, as a BJT VAS stage, should be driven through high \$g_m\$ and not as it is being handled from the JFET pre-amplifier stage. And I'd use a PNP transistor for this purpose. This extra transistor would buy separation of purpose and some clarity.

This doesn't mean losing the JFET stage. I believe it's very high input impedance is necessary for guitar pickups, as this Ovation Breadwinner 1251-0-350D schematic, for example, suggests. So I'm not suggesting that you replace that part of your schematic. Keep it.

But coming back to the point, this is why the process of redrawing is a habit you should cultivate and develop and then sustain as a matter of routine practice.

So I'm only going to focus on the power output stage, with fixed-voltage gain, and add that PNP transistor I mentioned while separating out the functions a bit.

using what works and building from there

I'd like to start out by again noting that \$Q_3\$ is a typical VAS that should be driven with high \$g_m\$. A simple PNP topology is all I need, shown below centered on \$Q_1\$. \$Q_1\$ will work as a kind of comparator, comparing the output signal with the input signal, while providing the high \$g_m\$ I believe I want:

schematic

simulate this circuit

In shaping some choices around \$Q_1\$, arranging things so that the sign of \$R_2\$'s current doesn't change may help to ensure that \$Q_1\$'s base-emitter voltage doesn't vary too much. This means that I don't want the voltage at \$Q_1\$'s emitter to be higher than the output swing at the power emitter side of \$C_{12}\$. I can do that. But only by setting \$Q_1\$'s base voltage to about \$1\:\text{V}\$. Luckily, \$Q_3\$'s collector will be only one VBE (about \$660\:\text{mV}\$) above ground. (\$Q_1\$ will also not experience Early Effect in this arrangement.) So this idea may work.

\$Q_3\$'s base current will be \$\le 12\:\mu\text{A}\$, using a worst case estimate of \$h_{\small{FE}}\approx 250\$. So I want a large factor, perhaps \$10\times\$ that much as \$Q_1\$'s collector current, knowing that whatever \$Q_3\$'s base doesn't require can be sunk through resistor \$R_1\$ (which should be adjusted later in order to set the quiescent voltage of the node shared by the power transistor emitters.)

Let's call it \$100\:\mu\text{A}\$ as the PNP's collector current. This means that \$R_1=\frac{660\:\text{mV}}{100\:\mu\text{A}-12\:\mu\text{A}}= 7.5\:\text{k}\Omega\$. (I may adjust this value in the schematic, later, to set that quiescent voltage I just mentioned.)

I'll keep \$Q_1\$'s base at about \$1\:\text{V}\$. I've set up a divider with three resistors to achieve that. \$Q_1\$'s base current should be no more than \$1\:\mu\text{A}\$, so a divider with \$30\:\mu\text{A}\$ should be more than stiff enough.

\$R_2=\frac{15\:\text{V}-1\:\text{V}-600\:\text{mV}}{100\:\mu\text{A}+12\:\mu\text{A}}\approx 120\:\text{k}\Omega\$. And to get a voltage gain of about \$100\times\$ (you can adjust this voltage gain per your needs), I've set \$R_3=1.2\:\text{k}\Omega\$.

I've salted the schematic with similarly large values for added capacitors.

When I create the schematic, I'll make two adjustments:

  1. Adjust potentiometer \$R_9\$ to achieve about \$30\:\text{mA}\$ (per the article) as a quiescent current for the power transistors.
  2. Adjust \$R_1\$ to center the shared emitter node of the power transistors to \$15\:\text{V}\$.

Putting it into the schematic, I set the potentiometer and then found I needed to set \$R_1=6.8\:\text{k}\Omega\$, as well.

I'm expecting a voltage gain of slightly less than 100. With an input signal of \$120\:\text{mV}\$ I should see almost \$12\:\text{V}\$ peak at the output. I don't expect to get exactly \$\vert A_v\vert=100\$. But it should be close.

Let's see:

enter image description here

That worked well given a \$4\:\Omega\$ load. A gain of about 95.

Let's try it for \$8\:\Omega\$:

enter image description here

A gain of 97, now.

I'd say that will work. It has an advantage of building on what you have, too.

The volume control may be a potentiometer at the input or in the negative feedback chain. (That's either \$R_2\$ or \$R_3\$ or a creative use of a potentiometer between the two. I've not thought it through, but that's one possible place where I'd look. The other would be at the input, itself.)

final thoughts

I had mentioned the Miller compensation cap on \$Q_3\$ (and provided a floating capacitor labeled as \$C_7\$ in the earlier schematic.) Let's first look at the above schematic's AC analysis (without it) to see why:

enter image description here

There's very high gain out to about \$1\:\text{MHz}\$. And at \$0\:\text{dB}\$ the phase shows at about \$-215^\circ\$. Not good.

The Miller compensation goes in.

And I'd also included earlier another floating capacitor, \$C_2\$. That will help by dramatically reducing the voltage gain at high frequencies and on improving the phase margin.

I'll make both values \$33\:\text{pF}\$ and see where that goes:

enter image description here

At \$0\:\text{dB}\$ the phase shows at about \$-91^\circ\$ now and the upper corner is nicely placed at about \$20\:\text{kHz}\$. That may have a better chance of avoiding unwanted oscillations.

In pulling all this together, while keeping your JFET pre-amplifier, keep in mind also that I set the fixed voltage gain to an arbitrary value. Depending upon your JFET pre-amplifier, you may want to adjust this fixed voltage gain. This is done by changing the value of \$R_3\$ (not \$R_2\$). Larger values will reduce the fixed voltage gain. Smaller values will increase it. I'd recommend lowering the gain to the lower value you can accept. It's better that way.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Wow, this is perfect! Thank you for discussing and including the proper names for the amplifier subcircuits. The material I found online made it hard read up on details. I'll do some measurements of a guitar and make a model to see if there is a need for a current amplifier stage. I'm definitively going to toss the JFETs though. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 4 at 12:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Anamne Just a note that may be important in the case of guitars. I'm ignorant about their pickups requirements. And it actually may be a serious requirement that a JFET level of very high input impedance exist. If so, \$15\:\text{k}\Omega\$ or so won't work well. I was focused on the output stage. Not the input. So a word of caution. You may still need that input stage to drive this one. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 4 at 15:58
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    \$\begingroup\$ For passive guitars, one tries to have an input impedance of at least 1 MOhm for amplifiers. JFETs are commonly picked for their square transfer characteristics, which supposedly creates less objectionable distortion harmonics, compared to the exponential transfer character of an open loop BJT. (guitar signals are large enough, that the small signal linear approximation isn't quite valid) \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 4 at 16:35
  • \$\begingroup\$ @tobalt Interesting. The next question is just what levels might be expected from a JFET source follower -- or put another way, how much voltage gain may be required before the levels are adequately conditioned prior to reasonable voltage gains available in the circuit I developed. This also may more clearly place the volume control into the JFET circuit. Not the one above. I'm now looking at this Ovation circuit by the way. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 4 at 16:54
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    \$\begingroup\$ @periblepsis Alright. The 100x voltage gain is definitely enough for typical (>100mV peak) pickup voltages to cause the max output voltage if a buffer is added. Not sure why I took that as the input stage needing to be removed (especially given that we want overdrive). I'm going to slow down to digest all of this. Thanks again. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 4 at 22:21
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The connections around Q3 look extremely suspicious, and I suspect that there's an error in the original schematic.

In DC terms, Q3 is biased through a path that includes Q5, R13, R14 and the speaker(!). Supposedly, the emitters of Q5 and Q6 should be sitting at Vcc/2, but it isn't at all clear how that's supposed to happen.

But for the AC analysis, R13 and R14 are effectively in parallel. Since R14 is only about 7% of the value of R13, this means that Q3 is going to be cut off for pretty much any appreciable negative output voltage.

I have no idea what the intended connections are supposed to be.

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Cross-over distortion would be largely mitigated by negative feedback via R13 (at DC) and R14 (at frequency), so I think in the short term supply current is a good-enough indication of successful biasing - I'd look for between 10 and 50mA as a good quiescent level during tests. Once you've fixed the oscillations, then you can look for ways to tune bias.

10W into 4Ω should be achievable at first glance, but expect Q5 and Q6 to get toasty.

You can't apply a low impedance input signal directly at C9 because gain will be huge. If you add an impedance \$R_X\$ between test signal source and the input at C9, you have gain \$\frac{R_{14}}{R_X}\$. In the original circuit (with JFET preamp), equivalent \$R_X\$ seems to be determined by R6, P1 and P2.

Any inductance in supply wiring to Q5 and Q6 collectors can cause dips in supply voltage as the output sources increasing load current. That can conceivably become positive feedback, so make sure that C13 is as close to Q5 and Q6 collectors as possible, or add extra supply decoupling capacitance close to and between those collectors - potentially hundreds of microfarads, and include a few hundred nanofarads ceramic there too.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you! I think I somehow forgot that BJTs amplify current, not voltage. That explains why I failed to simulate the output stage. I will try these things now. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 3 at 14:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Anamne you probably shouldn't accept the answer so quickly, it discourages others from answering with potentially important suggestions. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 3 at 15:09
  • \$\begingroup\$ Right, I will wait a few days then. Seems like someone said there could be something weird with the original schematic as well. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jul 3 at 15:15
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I simulated this circuit. Just changed the 2 kΩ variable to 5 kΩ.
Adjusted for "better" distortion to 0.66 * 5k = 3300 Ω.

Simulated with microcap v12

Transient 1 kHz behavior:

enter image description here

Sinusoidal 1 kHz behavior: not very "sinusoidal"

enter image description here

Fourier transform for the 1 kHz sinusoidal output:

enter image description here

Power output on 4 Ω load is about 9 W under 24 V.
Not tried under a rectified 50 Hz mains with a "4700 µF" (or more) capacitor C13.

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If you limit the voltage gain (e.g. Gv = 10 with R9 = 3 kOhm) you get a decent guitar amplifier. Probably needs an additional preamp stage.

Icq ~ 3.5 mA F = 1kHz

Vcc = 24 V Po = 10W THD = 0.21 %

Vcc = 28 V Po = 10W THD = 0.11 %

Vcc = 28 V Po = 15W THD = 0.19 %

10W Guitar PA

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