0
\$\begingroup\$

I have always had this confusion, and I'm finally ready to ask it, after reading the answer here: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q/755447

There are many questions here that seem tangential to this, but nothing addressing my primary confusion.

Imagine you have a controlling current entering into the B-E junction of an NPN transistor. The transistor is turned on and acts as a current source. So you take a resistor and connect it between the collector and emitter.

If the NPN transistor is a current source, it should be pushing current through the resistor. If my understanding of transistors is correct, this is not what happens.

In most applications, a transistor instead acts as a controllable current limiter. If a transistor has 2 mA into the base, and a (terrible) Beta value of 10, then it will limit the current through it to 20 mA. If it is controlling a 5 mA load (say we have a 5V source through a 1K resistor, connected to the collector), then the transistor does not act as a current source forcing 20 mA to flow. It is a current limiter which has not reached its limit.

What am I misunderstanding here? Why is the transistor so often described as a current source rather than as a limiter?

\$\endgroup\$
6
  • \$\begingroup\$ Why do you say the resistor connects between collector and emitter? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 16:16
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Your understanding is correct. A BJT is not a current source. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 16:16
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ A BJT is not a current source. What is happening is that the base current is controlling the amount of current that the collector-emitter draws from a supply source. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 16:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Andy aka my point was that, if it was a current source, you could attach a resistor as a load between collector and emitter and expect current to flow through that resistor. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 16:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ @TJM A bipolar is a voltage controlled device. The Ebers-Moll model makes that clear. But I don't know deeply you want to chase down the rabbit hole. So I don't know if I want to add anything to what's already said. Have a look here and then tell me if anything near that level of depth is what you'd like to acquire, or not. But you can clearly see the use of ideal current sources in the model. And that is the best model we had in 1954 for the bipolar from top scientists on the subject. Let me know how motivated you are, I guess. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 17:55

3 Answers 3

1
\$\begingroup\$

We might use the term "current source" or the term "current sink" depending on which way collector current flows. We might use one term for PNP BJT's and the other for NPN BJT's. But the emphasis of OP's question is not on direction, but more - why emphasize current rather than voltage for collector.

The example given of a BJT having a current gain of 10, with 2mA applied to the base results in the collector trying to sink 20mA from collector to emitter - which is assumed at 0V (gnd). The 2mA base current also adds to emitter current. But let's concentrate on collector current and voltage.

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

A 1k collector resistor connected to a 5V voltage source supplies collector current to the BJT. The 0.02A collector current that tries to flow would cause a voltage drop across the 1k resistor of 20V...that's not going to happen since the collector cannot go much below base voltage. The best that the BJT collector can do is to pull that 1k resistor down to approach 0V. Nearly 5mA could flow from collector to emitter - no more. Total emitter current would be 5mA due to collector plus 2mA due to base. In this scenario, I'd hesitate to think of that BJT's collector as a current sink. That collector is pulling down hard toward ground and the 1k resistor is too feeble to resist.


Now let's replace the 1k collector resistor with 100 ohms. This resistor will more strongly pull toward the +5V voltage supply. If you connected this 100 ohm resistor to GND, 50mA would flow. But the BJT can only sink 20mA, limited by its current gain. The collector will sit at 3V. At this bias point, I'm happy thinking of the collector as a current sink... If I replace the 100 ohm resistor with 200 ohms, 20mA collector current can still flow, and collector voltage will drop from 3V to 1V.
To the extreme, a collector resistor of zero ohms would result in collector voltage equal to the +5V supply, but 20mA collector current would be flowing. This behaviour is that of a current source (or sink). The OP's view of the transistor acting as a current limiter is valid only for the scenario where collector resistor is below 250 ohms (approximately).

\$\endgroup\$
1
\$\begingroup\$

The description of "current source" or "current sink" describes what happens when the transistor is in active mode fairly accurately.

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

As you can see for Vce from a few hundred mV up to 40V the collector current is fairly constant.

enter image description here

If your issue is that the current sink does not work without some Vce to put the transistor in the appropriate region of operation, that is correct, but then we'd have to consider a voltage regulator not a voltage source but a "voltage limiter" since it requires some input voltage and below the minimum it will provide less output voltage. Amplifiers, as well, typically redirect energy from their power supply to the output.

\$\endgroup\$
1
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ > then we'd have to consider a voltage regulator not a voltage source but a "voltage limiter"... Yes, I would agree with that. I think "limiter" and "regulator" are synonyms, much more than "source" and "regulator" are. A battery is a voltage source. It gives you its own self-originating voltage. A voltage regulator or a transistor can not do that, they only modulate the flow of voltages and currents coming from a different component that acts as the source. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 20:19
1
\$\begingroup\$

A BJT is not a current source. However, there are some circuits where a properly biased BJT can substitute for a current source. That is, a current source and a properly biased BJT will behave similarly in certain constrained contexts. They will NOT behave similarly in all contexts, because a current source is a source of power, while a BJT is not.

For example, in the schematics of operational amplifiers, one might see something like this

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

The operational amplifier would not actually contain a current source, but would instead contain a properly biased transistor, like so.

schematic

simulate this circuit

where \$V_{bias}\$ is set by the voltage across a diode connected transistor with a known (or approximately known) current. That is, Q3 is an output driver in what is perhaps a multi-output current mirror.

So why can we use a transistor here in place of the current source in the original schematic? Because the function of both is to cause a some amount of current to flow from the emitters of Q1 and Q2 to ground. Since that is the only thing we expect from whatever component is placed there, and since both a current source and a BJT will give us that desired behavior, we can substitute a BJT for the current source in that circuit.

For a more detailed understanding of why the BJT will cause a certain amount of current to flow from the emitters of Q1 and Q2 to ground, it may help to consider the operation of a current mirror. Q3 is almost certainly biased by another transistor (or possibly a more complex circuit) and together Q3 and that other transistor or transistors form a current mirror.

Here is the simplest form of current mirror.

schematic

simulate this circuit

Some known or approximately known current is fed through Q1, and so a voltage is developed at the collector of Q1. That voltage is used to bias the base of Q2. If we assume that the current into the base of Q2 is negligible, and we assume that Q1 and Q2 are well matched, and we assume that the circuit is such that there is a voltage source of some kind that can supply current to the collector of Q2, then we can assume the current through Q2 has the same magnitude as the current through Q1. Because our assumptions are actually only approximations, and because transistors do not have perfectly flat \$I_C\$ vs \$V_{CE}\$ characteristics for a given \$V_{BE}\$, the current through the collector of Q2 will only approximately equal the current through the collector of Q1. But for many purposes, it is "good enough". Various additions to this simple current mirror can make it more accurate.

In summary, a BJT is not a current source, but in many circuits, a properly biased BJT can substitute for current source. Whether that substitution works depends on the circuit where the substitution is made. In some cases the substitution won't work. In many integrated circuits it does work.

\$\endgroup\$
5
  • \$\begingroup\$ I'm still not understanding how a BJT acts as a current source in any circuit at all. If there is a nonzero load associated with that current, then a voltage will develop across the load. If there is a voltage and a current, then there is power being dissipated, which must be coming from somewhere. Under no circumstances is a BJT a power source, so it can never serve as a current source, unless the load is zero ohms (the only time a current can exist without energy dissipated). \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 20:23
  • \$\begingroup\$ The BJT is not "acting like a current source", rather the current source and the BJT that replace it are doing the same thing in that circuit, i.e. drawing a fixed amount of current from the emitters of Q1 and Q2 (first and second schematic) to ground. One can substitute for the other in that circuit, but not "in general". \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 20:31
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yes, but if it's drawing a fixed amount of current through the emitter, then that current must be coming from somewhere. Wherever it is coming from, that is the current source. The only thing the transistor can do is to restrict how much current can come from that source. If a transistor can substitute for a current source "in that circuit", then so can a resistor. Is a 100 ohm resistor across a 1.5V AA battery a 15 mA current source? It causes 15 mA to flow, but it is not the source - the battery is. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 20:44
  • \$\begingroup\$ The battery is a voltage source always, and once you attach a load to it, it becomes a current source as electrons flow between its terminals. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 20:46
  • \$\begingroup\$ A 100 ohm resistor across a 1.5 V battery is not a current source. But in some circuits it can serve the same purpose as a current source. In fact, sometimes a resistor is used in place of the current source in my first schematic. It is not the best substitute, because the current varies alot depending upon the voltage. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 16 at 20:47

Start asking to get answers

Find the answer to your question by asking.

Ask question

Explore related questions

See similar questions with these tags.