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Total amateur physics fan here, so I'd like to ask a stupid question. General relativity and quantum theory are currently irreconcilable, but I've always wondered

What keeps spacetime from just being the summation of all the quantum fields? The fields are scalar, and everywhere...could it be they're all just different degrees of freedom in spacetime?

I know gravity doesn't play well with quantum theories because it doesn't seem to be able to be quantized. When, from a relativistic point of view, spacetime curves in the presence of gravity, aren't the electromagnetic fields within that portion of spacetime also curved from the point of view of an external observer?

In other words, if you can't quantize gravity, can you topographically bend quantum fields? (or all of them all at once because they're just expressions of different aspects of the unified whole of spacetime?)

I know I'm wrong, but I'd like to know why.

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  • $\begingroup$ “Relativity and quantum theory” — careful, relativistic quantum field theory exists. We do not have a theory of quantum gravitation, but that does not mean we cannot treat quantum situations relativistically. $\endgroup$ Commented May 27 at 11:59
  • $\begingroup$ Nearly every statement is wrong in paragraphs 2 and 3. But maybe with the fourth one, you may be interested in QFT in curved space? $\endgroup$ Commented May 27 at 12:00
  • $\begingroup$ See also Kaluza-Klein theory where electromagnetism in 4D can be considered to be a gravitational effect in certain 5D topologies. $\endgroup$ Commented May 27 at 12:03
  • $\begingroup$ I think the problem for GR is that it makes ridiculous prediction or break down at high energy scale ? and in that case your idea wouldn't fix the problem $\endgroup$ Commented May 27 at 12:26
  • $\begingroup$ The fields are scalar. Why do you think that? Of the 17 quantum fields in the Standard Model, only one is scalar. $\endgroup$ Commented May 27 at 17:33

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Relativity and quantum theory are currently irreconcilable

This is incorrect. Relativistic quantum field theory is almost a hundred years old, and there is nothing wrong with it. It is actually the "language" of particle physics! Difficulties arise when we try quantizing gravity (or general relativity, to be precise). Special relativity can be easily dealt with in quantum theory.

What keeps spacetime from just being the summation of all the quantum fields? The fields are scalar, and everywhere...could it be they're all just different degrees of freedom in spacetime?

In a sense, the "shape" of spacetime is given by the metric, which is a field. General relativity is a classical field theory, and in this sense spacetime is already a field. No need to "sum all quantum fields" or anything. The tricky bit about gravity is how to obtain a quantum description of the metric field. This may require introducing new fields (which appear in modified theories of gravity).

I know gravity doesn't play well with quantum theories because it doesn't seem to be able to be quantized. When, from a relativistic point of view, spacetime curves in the presence of gravity, aren't the electromagnetic fields within that portion of spacetime also curved from the point of view of an external observer?

The analog of "curved spacetime" for electromagnetism is merely a nonvanishing electromagnetic field. If you have a charge, the electromagnetic field near it is curved, but in a more abstract sense. Sometimes, the electromagnetic field is even called curvature (especially in more geometric approaches to gauge theory).

In other words, if you can't quantize gravity, can you topographically bend quantum fields? (or all of them all at once because they're just expressions of different aspects of the unified whole of spacetime?)

This is misleading. Quantum fields can be "curved" in the sense that they are nontrivial. For example, the electromagnetic field does not need to vanish. However, this has nothing to do with gravity. Gravity in general relativity is described by its own field, which is the metric tensor. Other fields do not "store" the gravitational degrees of freedom and cannot describe the behavior of spacetime on their own. The tricky thing about quantum gravity is exactly how to describe the quantum behavior of the metric field.

In particular, as mentioned in the comments, we know how to describe quantum fields in curved spacetime.

Remark: I'm thinking here about the standard model fields and general relativity. There are scenarios in modified gravity in which things can get more complicated, but those are more speculative (for instance, the Kaluza–Klein remark that appeared in the comments). Perhaps someone with more experience on those topics may later comment on these ideas.

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  • $\begingroup$ Kaluza-Klein can be adapted to $\mathrm{U}(1)\times \mathrm{SU}(2)\times \mathrm{SU}(3)$, but the real problem is fermions. One has to use the super-Palatini-MacDowell-Mansouri action and factor the gravitino $\psi_\mu$ into $\gamma_\mu \psi$, for $\psi$ a fermionic field. Then the Higgs mechanism should be introduced via an additional, compact dimension. Really messy, but the resulting action should be quite compact. I am currently working on this in the continuity of my articles, but yeah, things are definitely more complicated. $\endgroup$ Commented May 27 at 13:22

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