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I have a digital scope and it has also differential inputs(+in_Scope and -in_Scope). I always obtain less noisy results using them comparing to and single ended wiring. Here below I draw what I mean:

enter image description here

If I do the wiring as in Figure 1, I get much better results than in Figure 2. I think Figure 1 is called pseudo-differential connection and Figure 2 is like single-ended connection. One thing I don't know, whether the reason for more noise in Figure 2 is common mode noise converted to differential noise due to imbalance or it is differential noise. Probably in Figure 2 it is CM interference appearing as differential noise. Can this be the reason?

Now I want to couple the circuit to this MCU board(F303-K8) instead of the scope. But it seems the the ADC of the MCU has only single ended input. Is there a common remedy for the MCU case making its ADC inputs acting like differential inputs? (Signal to be monitored is a DC voltage signal from a sensor with response time of 5ms in case it varies.)

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2 Answers 2

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Is there a common remedy for the MCU case making its ADC inputs acting like differential inputs?

Yes, it's called a differential amplifier and can be made from an Instrumentation amplifier: -

enter image description here

Or, it can be made from from an op-amp using an additional 4 resistors: -

enter image description here

One thing I don't know, whether the reason for more noise in Figure 2 is common mode noise converted to differential noise due to imbalance or it is differential noise.

It could be that or, it could also be ground/earth loop currents (remember that your oscilloscope is earthed).

Could you provide an answer showing how my single-ended circuit is coupled/wired to both of your suggestions?

If you want a single-ended supply for your differential amplifier, the only one that can be guaranteed to work (in most scenarios) is this circuit: -

enter image description here

Operating with a single rail op-amp isn't guaranteed to work in all scenarios but, it will perform better than a single-rail instrumentation amplifier due to the indirect coupling of op-amp inputs via resistors. I would highly recommend that you use a simulator to establish whether either of the solutions proposed will work with a single-rail supply. If necessary, raise a new post for further analysis.

My circuit's op-amp is single supply 5V powered and the DC signal output swings from zero to 3V max. Do I need negative rail for those diff op-amps?

It might be inevitable that you will need a negative rail. It all depends on how different the two ground voltages actually are. Once again, simulation is key to the analysis.

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    \$\begingroup\$ @user1245 In addition, some MCUs can configure two inputs to an ADC as differential inputs. You must read the datasheet to determine how this is implemented, if at all. \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 8, 2024 at 21:00
  • \$\begingroup\$ FYI my scope is not earth grounded. I was trying to avoid extra active components. \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 8, 2024 at 22:10
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Andy Aka In my case if V1 is connected to my circuit output signal should the V2 be connected to my circuit's ground? My single-ended circuit has only Vout and GND as terminals. But your second opamp has three inputs V1, V2 and GND. Could you provide an answer showing how my single-ended circuit is coupled/wired to both of your suggestions? \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 8, 2024 at 22:13
  • \$\begingroup\$ @user1245 yes, if you are referring to my first image. However, you have to be careful about the power supply connections in that circuit; you must ensure that the op-amp power supply negative voltage is more negative than the 0 volts you are measuring by at least 1 volt. Conversely, the differential amplifier (shown in my 2nd image can deal with negative voltage a little bit better. It all depends on the details not indicated in your question. \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 8, 2024 at 22:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ My circuit's opamp is single supply 5V powered and the DC signal output swings from zero to 3V max. Do I need negative rail for those diff opamps? \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 8, 2024 at 22:22
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Figure 1 and figure 2 have the same problem, it's just that in Figure 1 the problem is sidestepped.

You perhaps imagine things look as on the left below, but they actually look more like on the right below:

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

In spite of the non-idealities above, the scope still measures \$V_{src}\$, assuming that \$Z_{in,SCOPE}\gg Z_{cable}\$.

Then, when a single-ended connection is used:

schematic

simulate this circuit

Or, equivalently:

schematic

simulate this circuit

What you end up measuring on the scope is \$V_{src}+(Z_{cable}||Z_{PE})\,I_{PE}\$.

So, what's the solution when connecting the circuit to an ADC with single ended inputs? Ensure that at least one side is not connected to PE:

schematic

simulate this circuit

If that's not possible, then:

  1. Break the ground loop next to the ADC by adding an isolation impedance \$Z_{iso}\gg Z_{cable}\$.

  2. Add a voltage-controlled voltage source to have the ADC measure the voltage on the source in spite of being ground-referenced.

schematic

simulate this circuit

The VCVS can be easily implemented using an instrumentation amplifier. The isolation impedance \$Z_{iso}\$ is then the input impedance of the in-amp.

schematic

simulate this circuit

The classical in-amps that have equivalent three-op-amp architecture have a low impedance REF input. It can only be connected to a low-impedance node - an op-amp output or a ground.

In some cases, due to output voltage range limitations of the in-amp, its output may need to be "centered" around a voltage above the COM terminal of the ADC. In that case, it should always be ratiometrically derived from the ADC's reference voltage - that way it will have negligible thermal drift as long as R1 and R2 are tracking each other well.

The in-amp's input common mode voltage range needs to be wide enough that it will contain \$\Delta V_{PE}\$. This interfering ground voltage has AC and DC components that can reach several V within a small building, or much more across larger industrial buildings.

There are in-amps with wide input common mode voltage ranges that extend beyond supply voltages. You'll need to specify the maximum allowed \$\Delta V_{PE}\$ that your data acquisition system will be able to compensate for, and design accordingly.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Both sides are not connected to PE in my case. I dont have such ground loops. Im trying to understand your answer though. I dont think I have IPE1 and IPE2 since I dont have such common earth conenction. \$\endgroup\$ Commented May 9, 2024 at 15:34

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