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I am currently trying to create a model using a transfer function and my data. Here is my schematic:

enter image description here

Here is my transfer function:

enter image description here

My input signal is 2.5V for 10s, after which I decrease the voltage to 2.25V, and the charge amplifier rises to 2.75V. enter image description here

Is it possible to create a model from this information?

I want to obtain my time constant, τ = RF * CF.

My initial approach was to take the natural logarithm of the measured values after the step, and then use the slope of the linear equation to obtain τ.

Here is the image for reference: enter image description here

I have several charge amplifiers for which I want to determine the time constant. The decrease in the signal during the first 10s is due to the reference for the common mode, meaning each charge amplifier has a different common mode value.

I do not want to wait until my system reaches the actual common mode value to then make a step. Therefore, I want to calculate my time constant independently of the common mode value.

EDIT: Changed the tf to what @Franc said in the comments. EDIT2: To clarify: The Vcm input into the non-inverting input is stable, but not offset of the Vout of the Opamp. There is a 'stable' Vcm, but I will never or almost never reach it because my time constant (tau) equals RfCf, theoretically 100s for 37%, and for 5tau it's 99.3%. After resetting my system, it aims to reach the Vcm with a time constant of my RfCf, so after 500s, I will reach 99.3% of my Vcm. Therefore, I want to calculate my 'real' tau without considering Vcm.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ ? RR short quasi RF ... \$\endgroup\$ Commented Mar 1, 2024 at 8:15
  • \$\begingroup\$ RR ist my reset circuit \$\endgroup\$ Commented Mar 1, 2024 at 8:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ Ok, then you need a serial switch ... \$\endgroup\$ Commented Mar 1, 2024 at 8:18
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    \$\begingroup\$ Why not derive the model from the schematic directly? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Mar 1, 2024 at 8:21
  • \$\begingroup\$ "Ok, then you need a serial switch .." -> There is a switch I can activate. Didnt draw it in the picture, sorry "Why not derive the model from the schematic directly?" @Andyaka isn't this the transfer function ? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Mar 1, 2024 at 8:28

5 Answers 5

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For "eliminating" the offsets, you can use this kind of circuit.
R2 is lower, added R5 and Voff. Adjust Voff with voltage ~ 2.5 V just before the time = 10.

enter image description here

If you don't adjust Voff, you will have something like this.

enter image description here

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you for your circuit. However, I am unable to make any changes to my circuit at this point. The charge amplifiers are already integrated onto PCBs. The data presented in the image represents actual measurements taken from my charge amplifier. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Mar 1, 2024 at 9:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ However, your "method" seems quasi ok ... if the initial Vo is "horizontal" before the time=10 (?). \$\endgroup\$ Commented Mar 1, 2024 at 10:21
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If you are impatient and want to estimate the time constant quickly you do not need to wait till you fall to 37%. You can indeed measure the time constant the way you do. The only downside is that your measurement will be less precise.

Initially (for t much smaller then tau) the exp(-t/tau) will be almost linear. E.g. at t=1% of tau exp(-t/tau) is also roughly 1% (0.995%) at t=10% of tau then exp(-t/tau) is 9.52%

t/tau % change in output
1% 0.995%
2% 1.98%
10% 9.52%
20% 18.1%
30% 25.9%
50% 39.3%
100% 63.2%

So small errors in the how you measure the output voltage will lead to larger errors in how you estimate tau but other then that your method of using the logarithm will work.

For measuring the time constant it also does not matter if the change in output voltage is due to the step function in the input or due to initial changes in other parameters, as long as at the time of measurement the Vcm is stable.

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Analysis of the Op Amp circuit with two input signals:

enter image description here

The graph is impossible because the expnents take on very high values, causing both the hyperbolic function and the exponential to diverge and practically overflow.

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By changing some parameters you get a plausible answer:

enter image description here

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The requested solution is at the end if you want to skip the math.

Therefore, I want to calculate my time constant independently of the common mode value.

The common mode voltage is part of all the node voltages when measured to ground. The only way to remove it is to measure the node voltages relative to the common mode voltage as demonstrated below.

The circuit presented is second order and overdamped. So the proposed first order approximation can sometimes work with appropriate constraints. The secret (and the effort) is to discover the constraints that allow it.

The main difficulty the OP presents is that the output voltage has insufficient time to reach 5 time constants, so the initial condition of the capacitors is not known.

A helpful approach is to measure the input and output relative to the common mode bias voltage \$v_{cm}(t)=V_{CM}=2.5V\$. If this can't be done then subtract the common mode voltage from the voltages measured relative to ground.

schematic

simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab

Notice that lowercase is used for time varying signals and uppercase used for Laplace domain or constants.

In the Laplace domain \$V_{cm}(s)=\frac{V_{CM}}{s}=\frac{2.5}{s}\$.

To reveal the initial conditions (\$v_{Ci}(0)\$, and \$v_{Cf}(0)\$) at \$t=0\$, the following capacitor definitions are used for \$C_i\$ and \$C_f\$ respectively:

\$V_{Ci}(s)=\frac{1}{C_{i}s}I_{Ci}(s)+\frac{v_{Ci}(0)}{s}\$

\$I_{Cf}(s)=C_{f}sV_{Cf}(s)-C_{f}v_{Cf}(0)\$

Circuit analysis then reveals the output response relative to \$V_{cm}(s)\$.

$$ V_{ocm}(s)=\frac{-\frac{1}{R_{i}C_{f}}s}{\left(s+\frac{1}{R_{f}C_{f}}\right)\left(s+\frac{1}{R_{i}C_{i}}\right)}V_{icm}(s)+\frac{v_{Cf}(0)}{\left(s+\frac{1}{R_{f}C_{f}}\right)}-\frac{\frac{1}{R_{i}C_{f}}v_{Ci}(0)}{\left(s+\frac{1}{R_{f}C_{f}}\right)\left(s+\frac{1}{R_{i}C_{i}}\right)} $$

where \$V_{icm}(s)=\left(V_{i}(s)-V_{cm}(s)\right)\$, and \$V_{ocm}(s)=\left(V_{o}(s)-V_{cm}(s)\right)\$ are the input and output voltages relative to the common mode voltage. Notice that the output voltage \$V_{ocm}(s)\$ is the feed back capacitor voltage.

The input voltage in the OP corresponds to a -0.25 V step relative to \$V_{CM}\$. For an arbitrary step input of height \$\frac{V_A}{s}\$ The time domain solution is: $$ v_{ocm}(t)=\left(\frac{\left(V_{A}+v_{Ci}(0)\right)}{\left(\frac{R_{i}}{R_{f}}-\frac{C_{f}}{C_{i}}\right)}+v_{Cf}(0)\right)e^{\frac{-t}{R_{f}C_{f}}}-\frac{\left(V_{A}+v_{Ci}(0)\right)}{\left(\frac{R_{i}}{R_{f}}-\frac{C_{f}}{C_{i}}\right)}e^{-\frac{-t}{R_{i}C_{i}}} $$

For the values given \$\left(\frac{R_{i}}{R_{f}}-\frac{C_{f}}{C_{i}}\right)\approx-1\$, so: $$ v_{ocm}(t)=\left(-V_{A}+v_{Cf}(0)-v_{Ci}(0)\right)e^{\frac{-t}{R_{f}C_{f}}}+\left(V_{A}+v_{Ci}(0)\right)e^{-\frac{-t}{R_{i}C_{i}}} $$

\$R_{i}C_{i}<<R_{f}C_{f}\$ allows the second order system to be approximated as a first order system tried in the OP. The term on right becomes insignificant for \$t>5R_{i}C_{i}\$. $$ v_{ocm}(t)\approx\left(-V_{A}+v_{Cf}(0)-v_{Ci}(0)\right)e^{\frac{-t}{R_{f}C_{f}}} $$

The three constants must be measured to achieve an accurate calculation.

From a comment:

I want another solution/ method.

Here it is:
Take the ratio of two measurements, then the time constant can be determined. The ratio of two measurements at different times is: $$ \frac{v_{ocm}(t_1)}{v_{ocm}(t_2)}\approx e^{\left(\frac{t_{2}-t_{1}}{R_{f}C_{f}}\right)}\Rightarrow R_{f}C_{f}=\frac{t_{2}-t_{1}}{\ln\frac{v_{ocm}(t_{1})}{v_{ocm}(t_{2})}} $$

The following constraints must be observed:

  1. The output voltage must be measured relative to the common mode voltage. VCM cannot be ignored.
  2. \$5R_{i}C_{i}<t_{1}<t_{2}<5R_{f}C_{f}\$. This is necessary to maintain the first order approximation.

This result also shows that the the circuit operates independently from the common mode voltage even if it is time varying.

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