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I saw a few people say they recommend to learn geometric algebra.

Since I have only finished Apostol's calculus, I do not have ability to evaluate this subject properly.

To be honest, I feel it seems cool but I don't like the lack of rigor. I thought I was confident to say it is ok to start learning now, since it has been many years after it exists.

But after I see this https://terathon.com/blog/poor-foundations-ga.html , named Poor Foundations of Geometric Algebra by Lengyel, who has been studying GA for 15 years, I end up losing my confidence to start learning GA.

Author mainly criticizes many popular GA books(mainly Leo Dorst's GA for computer scientists, Macdonald's book which deemed as a standard book nowadays and Lounesto's book which is more rigorous and so on...) on Inner Product and Hodge dual, which are fundamental parts of GA. Well, he does not mention Macdonald's book directly in this link, but he criticizes Def 6.15, 6.23 of inner product and page 111 on hodge dual as well.

I hope to know if there exists a way to learn GA rigorously. If it is impossible, I would make a plan to learn standard clifford algebra as quotient of tensor algebra.

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    $\begingroup$ Clifford algebras are perfectly rigorous pieces of mathematics. What can happen is that since they are sometimes used in more applied fields of mathematics, they are also taught in perhaps less rigorous textbooks. My personal advice would be to avoid texts that refer to it as "geometric algebra" if you want a more algebraic treatment. This is not the terminology used by experts in algebra and quadratic form theory. But then maybe you won't find the material you want, if you're looking for something which is focused on euclidean geometry. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 20, 2024 at 22:11
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    $\begingroup$ I agree with @CaptainLama. For some reason, some authors like to use the term geometric algebra and start using different notations and what not. However, both Clifford algebra theory (and related theory of exterior algebras) are very well founded and very active and important throughout mathematics and physics. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 20, 2024 at 22:27
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    $\begingroup$ Playing something like devil's advocate, even if writings on "Geometric Algebra" were the only way to get certain deep intuitions about some things in physics, that's not likely the approach your teachers and textbooks are likely to use and you might gain other intuitions from other approaches. So even when we stack the deck for GA in this way, I'd still recommend reading GA texts after you have learned more standard treatments of relevant physics like the electromagnetic four-potential and quantum mechanics. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 20, 2024 at 23:07
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    $\begingroup$ The article you linked to by Lengyel (as far as I can tell from skimming) makes some valid criticisms of a specific textbook, but he also has very much decided that his conventions and notations are The One True Way, and the tone he takes in writing this article is appalling. I would say that you should ignore this article entirely. This article aside, I have never liked anything I've seen from Lengyel and I think there are (ironically) fundamental issues in the way he approaches PGA (more so pedagogically rather than as an issue of mathematical rigour). $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 21, 2024 at 0:28
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    $\begingroup$ GA is very much a "rigourous" subject; it's just a certain view on real Clifford algebras. However, I don't think there is any good, in depth text on every aspect of GA, and many texts will probably require a certain amount of mathematical maturity anyway because this just isn't a subject that is usually taught in a class anywhere. I could rattle off a bibliography that covers many, many different topics and viewpoints, but I don't think that's what you're looking for. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 21, 2024 at 0:34

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"Is it valid to learn geometric algebra?" Answer: Yes!

You write: "I feel it seems cool but I don't like the lack of rigor. If it is impossible, I would make a plan to learn standard Clifford algebra as quotient of tensor algebra."

There is no need for this: my geometric algebra book is rigorous, more so than others I think, because it is a mathematics text. Yet it has no mathematical prerequisites beyond high school algebra. (And an ability to follow a mathematical argument, which might need to be gained from a calculus course.) There is no reliance on the tensor or exterior algebras.

You write: "He does not mention Macdonald's book directly in this link, but he criticizes Def 6.15, 6.23 of inner product."

Lengyel writes: "An inner product must produce a scalar quantity by definition." Must? Why? If more general objects go into a function, why can't more general objects come out? To me, the only "must" for the geometric algebra inner product is that it reduces to the standard inner product of inner product spaces - otherwise the naming is confusing. Geometric algebra's several choices for the inner product do this.

Lengyal: "There is a religious belief that the geometric product is fundamental and that all other products should be derived from it." Yes, that is the belief of advocates of GA, precisely because all other products can be derived from the geometric product. That is what makes it fundamental. ("Religious" is part of the "appalling tone" mentioned by Nicholas Todoroff.)

Dorst's "The Inner Products of Geometric Algebra" defends his choice of the fundamental inner product. It persuaded me.

Lengyal keeps relying on exterior algebra for justification of his geometric algebra definitions, as if exterior algebra was not only historically prior to geometric algebra but also logically prior. Geometric Algebra can stand on its own with no input from exterior algebra. In fact the exterior algebra can be defined in terms of geometric algebra. As far as I know, the reverse is not possible.

By all means study physics at the same time, but there is no reason to delay geometric algebra.

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    $\begingroup$ Here is Lengyel's criticism on your book: I think Macdonald's book is very concise and clean compared to others but it does have some of the same issues that i wrote about in my post. In particular, Definition 6.15 gives one of the problematic definitions of the inner product, and Definition 6.23 gives the same broken definition of dual that has an inconsistent orientation and fails to extend to the degenerate metrics of projective algebras. Has also says, at the bottom of page 111, that the Hodge dual can't be defined directly in the exterior algebra, which is not correct. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 23, 2024 at 3:40
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    $\begingroup$ If it is Lengyel vs. Gunn, I choose Gunn. Yengyel again seems scattershot, with no overarching principles. What works for him is right. I think that Gunn is under appreciated. He is steeped in the history of these ideas from the 18th century. Not only does he advocate for PGA, he explains its inevitability, given motivated principles that he sets out. That is what his paper "Geometric algebras for euclidean geometry" is about. Have a look. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 24, 2024 at 15:32
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    $\begingroup$ @AlanMacdonald Lengyel's comment on your book is from news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41374480 . Stripped of the polemics, Lengyal's arguement is for the scalar product being the grade zero component of the geometric product with one input reversed and the Hodge dual being the geometric product of the pseudoscalar with the other input reversed. The argument is that with these conventions, the natural bijection with the exterior algebra is a homomorphism also for the inner product and Hodge structures that the latter acquires naturally from the inner product on the vector space. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 30, 2024 at 19:06
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    $\begingroup$ @AlanMacdonald regarding the interdefinability of geometric algebra and exeterior algebra, I believe Fauser and Ablamowicz's paper On the Decomposition of Clifford Algebras of Arbitrary Bilinear Form shows that there are many different inequivalent gradings (one for each antisymmetric form) one can endow the Clifford algebra with. This seems to run counter to your claim that the geometric algebra can stand on its own without the exterior algebra. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 30, 2024 at 19:17
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    $\begingroup$ @AlanMacdonald You said "To me, the only 'must' for the geometric algebra inner product is that it reduces to the standard inner product of inner product spaces - otherwise the naming is confusing." I agree 100%, and this is exactly the point I was making! However, the inner product you give in your book does not reduce to the standard inner product of inner product spaces. It has the wrong sign for elements of grade 2 or 3 mod 4. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 28 at 5:09
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Contrary to what Lengyel claims, Dorst et al.'s defintions of scalar products and contractions are mathematically justified: they arise from the exclusive use of the twisting symmetry on the category of graded modules, as done for example in Chapter 4 and onward of Helmsletter and Micali's book Quadratic Mappings and Clifford Algebras. By contrast, Lengyel's definitions arise from an additional use of the ordinary symmetry on the category of graded modules.

Moreover, there is no error in Dorst et al.'s (or Lounesto's) assertion that $a\rfloor(B\wedge C)=a\rfloor B+(-1)^{\deg B}B\wedge(a\rfloor C)$. Lengyel contradicts himself when claiming there is such a mistake: he claims that $(B\wedge C)\lfloor a=B\lfloor a+(-1)^{\deg B}\wedge(C\lfloor a)$ is correct in his notation, but the right contraction $B\lfloor A$ in his notation is the same as the standard left contraction $\tilde A\rfloor B$ with the reverse $\tilde A$ of $A$. In particular, the two identities are the same (and in fact both correct).

Finally, there is a mathematical basis for having contractions given by components of the geometric product, namely the the theory of deformations of Clifford algebras, which is worked out in full detail in Helmsletter and Micali's book. For Lengyel to claim otherwise is to ignore the larger algebraic context of geometric algebras.

Lengyel does have a point in that there is another inner product on the exterior algebra in addition to the scalar product of the geometric algebra. Consequently, taking the scalar product, or the other inner product, with a pseudoscalar results in two different dualities on the geometric algebra. Only the latter seems to have good geometric properties, matching the Hodge dual of exterior algebra.

I am inclined to agree with Lengyel that the absence of this inner product and corresponding correct expression of Hodge duality is a gap in the foundations of geometric algebra limting its proper geometric use. However, the existing foundations concerning the scalar product and contractions are not poor, but part of the larger algebraic context of Clifford algerbas.

Regarding Dorst et al.'s claims on transform composition and projective geometric algebra, Lengyel may be correct but I do not know to evaluate those claims.


In more detail on how Lengyel's definitions arise from using ordinary instead of twisting symmetry, recall that the twisting symmetry $A\otimes B\to B\otimes A$ on graded modules is given by mapping homogeneous elements according to $a\otimes b\mapsto(-1)^{\deg a\deg b}b\otimes a$, whereas the ordinary symmetry is given by $a\otimes b\mapsto b\otimes a$. Their composite is the twisting action on tensor products given by $a\otimes b\mapsto(-1)^{\deg a\deg b}a\otimes b$. Consequently, any graded algebra structure given by $A\otimes A\to A$ (or graded coalgebra structure given by $A\to A\otimes A$) determines three additonal graded (co)algebra structures: the opposite, twisted, and twisted opposite obtained by composing with the symmetry, twist, or twisted symmetry of tensor products.

Now, any bilinear form on a module $M$, when identified with a linear map $b\colon M\to M^*$ to its dual $M^*$, induces a bilinear form on its exterior algebra $\Lambda M$ that vanishes on elements of different degrees, and corresponds to the unique algebra homomorphism $\Lambda M\to(\Lambda M)^*$ extending the linear composite $M\to M^*\to \Lambda^* M$ to the graded algebra $\Lambda^* M$ of alternating maps on $M$. Such an extension exists (and is unique) because the algebra structure on $\Lambda ^*M$ guarantees $(m^*)^2=0$ for any image $m^*\in(\Lambda M)^*$ of $m\in M$ under that linear composite.

Explicitly, the algebra structure on $(\Lambda M)^*$ is given by $(f\wedge g)(m_1\wedge\cdots\wedge m_n)=\sum_s\DeclareMathOperator\sgn{sgn}\sgn(s)f(m_{s(1)},\dots, m_{s(i)})g(m_{s(i+1)}),\dots,g(m_{s(n)})$ where $f$ is an $i$-form, $g$ an $n-i$-form, $m_i\in M$, and $s$ ranges over permutations satisfying $s(1)<\cdots<s(i)$ and $s(i+1)<\cdots<s(n)$, and $\sgn(s)$ is the sign of the permutation. It follows that the induced bilinear form on $\Lambda M$ is given by $b(m_1\wedge,\cdots,\wedge m_n,m'_1\wedge\cdots m'_n)=\det(b(m_i,m'_j))$. Applied to an inner product on $M$, this induces Lengyel's preferred inner product on $\Lambda M$.

But $(m^*)^2=0$ in $\Lambda^*M$ implies $(m^*)^2=0$ also for the opposite, twisted, and twisted opposite algebra structures on $\Lambda^*M$. Thus, there are a priori another three induced bilinear forms on $\Lambda M$. Fortunately, $\Lambda^*M$ is twisted commutative, i.e. is the same as its twisted opposite, i.e. its opposite is the same as its twist. So there is one other bilinear form induced by the opposite algebra $\Lambda^\wedge M$ given by $b^\wedge(m_1\wedge\cdots\wedge m_n,m'_1\wedge\cdots\wedge m'_n)=\det(b(m_{n-i},m'_j))=(-1)^{n\choose2}B(m_1\wedge\cdots\wedge m_n,m'_1\wedge\cdots\wedge m'_n)$. Applied to an inner product on $M$, the inner product induced in this way is the scalar product of the correponding Clifford algebra.


The twisting symmetry first arises because of the fundamental result that the Clifford algebra $\DeclareMathOperator\Cl{Cl}\Cl((M,q)\perp(M',q'))$ of an orthogonal sum $(M,q)\perp(M',q')=(M\oplus M',q+q')$ of quadratic modules is the twisted tensor product $\Cl(M,q)\hat\otimes\Cl(M',q')$ of the Clifford algebras of those quadratic modules.

The diagonal map $M\to M\oplus M$ underlies morhpisms of quadratic modules $(M,q)\to(M,0)\perp(M,q)$ and $(M,q)\to(M,q)\perp(M,0)$, making $(M,0)$ into a cocommutative coalgebra over which $(M,q)$ has compatible left and right comodule structures. Consequently, the exterior algebra $\Lambda M=\Cl(M,0)$ is a cocommutative coalgebra in the category of graded algebras with twisted tensor product over which each Clifford $\Cl(M,q)$ algebra has compatible left and right comodule structures.

Now on the one hand, the dual $A^*$ of a graded module $A$ admits two morphisms $A^*\otimes A^*\to(A\otimes A)^*$ that are twists of one another. Each arises from following the ordinary or twisted symmetry $A^*\otimes A^*\otimes A\otimes A\to A^*\otimes A\otimes A^*\otimes A$ with the product of evaluation maps from $A^*\otimes A$. Call the former the ordinary morphism $A^*\otimes A^*\to(A\otimes A)^*$ and the latter the twisted morphism.

On the other hand, when $A\to A\otimes A$ is a coalgebra structure on $A$, the composition of $A^*\otimes A^*\to(A\otimes A)^*\to A^*$ is an algebra structure on $A^*$. Moreover, the opposite, twisted, and twisted oposite coalgebra structures on $A$ lead to the opposite, twisted, and twisted opposite algebra structures on $A^*$. Thus if $A\to A\otimes A$ is twisted cocommutative, then $A^*\otimes A^*\to A^*$ is also twisted commutative, so that its opposite and twisted structures are the same.

It follows that the twisted algebra structure on $\Lambda^*M$ arises from using the coalgebra structure on $\Lambda M$ and the twisted morphism $(\Lambda M)^*\otimes(\Lambda M)^*\to(\Lambda M\otimes\Lambda M)^*$.

Since $\Cl(M,q)$ is compatibly a left and right comodule over $\Lambda M$, it is also a bimodule over the algebra $\Lambda^*M$. Composing with the algebra homomorphisms $\Lambda M\to\Lambda^*M$, one obtains two structures of $\Cl(M,q)$ as a $\Lambda M$-bimodule, depending on whether $\Lambda^*M$ was given the ordinary or twisted algebra structure. The one arising from the twisted algebra structure consists of the left and right contractions defined by Dorst et al. The one arising from the ordinary one consists of Lengyel's left and right contractions.

Finally, since the twisted algebra structure is simply the opposite one, the two $\Lambda M$-bimodule structures on $\Cl(M,q)$ are canonical related by being opposite to one another, which explains why Lengyel's right contraction is given by Dorst et al.'s left contraction with a reversed element.

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  • $\begingroup$ wow thank you so much! I feel this answer is a gem! $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 8, 2024 at 1:14
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    $\begingroup$ It seems, in summary, 1. the existing foundations concerning the scalar product and contractions are not poor, but part of the larger algebraic context of Clifford algerbas. 2. Only Lengyel's inner product seems to have good geometric properties, matching the Hodge dual of exterior algebra. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 8, 2024 at 1:20
  • $\begingroup$ I did not contradict myself regarding left and right contractions. Your claim that $B \lfloor A$ is the same as $\tilde A \rfloor B$ is not correct. The reverse operation changes sign by a factor of $(-1)^{k(k-1)/2}$, and the switch from $B \lfloor A$ to $A \rfloor B$ changes sign by a factor of $(-1)^{k(k+l)}$, where where $k$ is the grade of $A$ and $l$ is the grade of $B$. These don't cancel out. A simple counterexample in 3D with the identity metric is that $\mathbf e_{12} \lfloor \mathbf e_1 = \mathbf e_2$, but $\mathbf{\tilde e}_1 \rfloor \mathbf e_{12} = -\mathbf e_2$. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 28 at 5:12
  • $\begingroup$ @EricLengyel - The answerer doesn't claim that $B\,\llcorner\,A=\tilde A\,\lrcorner\,B$ both with your operations. He claims that $B\,\llcorner\,A$ using your operations equals $\tilde A\,\lrcorner\,B$ using the standard operations. In your counterexample, both results have signs opposite to what I expect. $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 28 at 6:03
  • $\begingroup$ OK, thanks for clarifying. But how did I contradict myself? $\endgroup$ Commented Feb 28 at 7:26
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Your question is a bit multi-faceted and has received answers from some angles, but I'd like to cover another one.

If your intuition is that geometric algebra is a field in flux with many active debates being held about the best ways of doing things, then I'd say it's guilty as charged.

Whether that means you should or shouldn't study it, all comes down to your preferences. If your interest goes out to the study of the most settled mathematics, you have your answer. If you feel challenged to be the person to reformulate ga in a way that will settle such debates once and for all; then there is your answer. It's not for a lack of validity and interestingness of the core ideas of ga that you need to stay away from it.

Similarly, someone mentioned in the comments above that for the purposes of physics it's best to study other formalisms first, since they are much more used. If your goal is to recite what other physicists have done before you, that is of course exactly right.

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I have recently come across the paper Differential Forms vs Geometric Algebra: The quest for the best geometric language. (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2407.17890) The authors compare the two formalisms with no ax to grind. They give examples of what each can and can't do. In the end they favor GA, of course.

Their approach is different from Lengyel's, who says that the geometric product in geometric algebra is wrong because ... . I can't figure out why.

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  • $\begingroup$ Thank you, Professor. After reading what you linked, the language seems incredibly powerful! I'm becoming very interested in the GA-based approach to Clifford Algebra. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 8 at 14:07
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I only just became aware of this post, so sorry for the late reply. My intention was never to discourage anyone from learning GA. In fact, I think it's the best time ever because we've corrected the problems in the foundations, and lots of things work out much better as a result. Yes, the tone of my post may have come across as "appalling" to some, but it's nothing compared to the downright nasty attacks I've endured from people like Gunn, De Keninck, and a few others in the GA community over the past several years. Many people familiar with the situation have come forward to support my response, and I ask you not to judge without knowing the whole story. I apologize to anyone who disagrees with my tone, and I hope that we can focus on the objective facts. My main goal is to get the math right.

The people arguing against me above have not made the effort to understand why I've made the claims I have about inner products, contractions, and duals. It's not done lightly, it's not a personal preference, and it doesn't exclude alternatives due to ignorance of geometric algebra as some have suggested. Some of the above arguments also contain incorrect assertions, and I have commented to point them out.

A complete explanation of all this can be found in my book, but the gist of it is that there is only one way that the metric tensor on the base vector space can be extended to the entire exterior algebra in such a way that it preserves the structure of the exterior product as a linear transformation. This gives the one and only possible inner product on the whole exterior algebra. When the inner product is defined differently, usually as the scalar part of the geometric product, then the canonical norm ends up doing silly things like assigning imaginary magnitudes to bivectors and trivectors (or in general, anything with grade 2 or 3 mod 4) even when the metric is positive definite. In particular, using the wrong inner product breaks relativistic invariants in the spacetime algebra. Badly. But with the right inner product, everything works just fine (and quite beautifully). I wrote a post about relativistic quaternions recently that highlights this.

There's a terminology issue when it comes to inner and outer products. Hestenes kind of hijacked the term "inner product" to mean what many authors now call a "contraction". There is another term that has been well established in differential geometry for a long time, and that's the "interior product". In conventional mathematics, an inner product always yields a scalar, and a canonical norm can be derived from it. This still holds in exterior / geometric algebra. The interior product is the one that yields a result having a grade equal to the difference of the grades of its operands. The geometric product of a vector and anything else is the sum of the interior product and the exterior product. The interior product reduces to the inner product for operands of the same grade, and that's how it is in every differential geometry text I've ever seen. That requires that the correct Leibniz product rule be followed, and the DG folks always get that right. I don't know how it got so broken in GA, but it appears that the desire to define contractions (sometimes conflated with inner products) by extracting the lowest grade part of the geometric product had something to do with it. Reversing one of the operands in the geometric product fixes the problem. It also makes contractions (a.k.a. interior products) very nicely definable with the Hodge dual and the regressive product. It couldn't be easier, and it replaces the ridiculous lists of axioms that books like Dorst's use. Finally, over the exterior / geometric algebra of an n-dimensional vector space, there are $2^{2^n}$ ways to define a dual by arbitrarily choosing signs. They all produce orthogonal complements, but only the Hodge dual (and its left counterpart for even n) yield consistent orientations. And the Hodge dual has an extremely simple explicit formula incorporating the same exact extended metric tensor that gives us the inner product over the whole exterior / geometric algebra. It also happens to be the one choice of dual that generates the correct interior products, which reduce to the correct inner product. Furthermore, it generates sensible results even when the metric is degenerate, and that opens another whole side to these algebras that I haven't even mentioned. The results are vastly more elegant when we get the math right.

I just posted a follow-up to the original article that talks specifically about issues in several popular books: https://terathon.com/blog/ga-books.html

There are a couple additional notes I'd like to leave here. First, Dorst's book gives an inner product that actually does yield the correct values even though they take a detour through the scalar product. However, their contractions don't reduce to the inner product when the operands have the same grade, due to their Leibniz product rule being inconsistent with the one given in the differential geometry literature for the interior product. Their duals also yield results with inconsistent orientations, just like any dual defined by a formula like $\pm aI$ or $\pm aI^{-1}$.

Second, regarding the question as to whether the geometric product could be defined entirely within the exterior algebra, the answer is yes. The geometric product can always be decomposed into a sum of products involving only the exterior product and duals. In the case of a vector multiplied by anything else, the geometric product is the sum of an interior product and an exterior product. For two operands both with grades greater than one, there are generally additional components in two-grade increments given by intermediate types of products that logically fall in between the interior and exterior products. These are discussed in Browne's second volume, and I am developing them further for degenerate metrics.

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  • $\begingroup$ Comments have been moved to chat; please do not continue the discussion here. Before posting a comment below this one, please review the purposes of comments. Comments that do not request clarification or suggest improvements usually belong as an answer, on Mathematics Meta, or in Mathematics Chat. Comments continuing discussion may be removed. $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 3 at 12:14

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